From Invisible Courage to Visible Success: The Michael Yang Story

Welcome And The Story Ahead

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. This is a story about what it really means to build a life, not from comfort, but from courage. From war-torn beginnings in Korea to arriving in America at 14 with hardly any English to building and selling a tech company for hundreds of millions of dollars, then rebuilding again and rebuilding again, traveling around the continent and other countries and on the back of a bike with your best friend. It's a story about rewriting your life and discovering that success isn't the destination, it's the journey that shapes you. And maybe most powerfully, it's a story about immigrants and the truth that so much of what we call the American dream was built by people who risked everything to believe in it. This is about adventure, discovery, and the courage to live fully. Michael Yang, your book, Coming Alive on the Ride, a memoir of motorcycle travel, self-discovery, and Korean heritage, is so beautifully written. And I read every word, and I'm so honored to have you on today.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Thank you so much, Anne. I'm so uh excited to uh to hear that you read my book and you enjoyed um reading it and and joining me on the ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yes. Yeah, you know, we're going to talk about all of it, every bit of your story. But I would like to start here because before Silicon Valley, before the success, before everything that you built, there was a story that started long before you. What stood out to me in your book is that your life didn't just begin with you, it was shaped by everything that came before you. You take us into Korean history, and not just as facts, but as a lived experience, war, division, survival, and this was your family's reality. Before your story really begins, it started with theirs. What did your family endure in Korea?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Well, you know, my parents were born in a very difficult time in Korean history because when they were born in 1933 and 34 for my father and mother, Korea was not a country uh it that existed because it was taken over by uh uh Japan. And so Japan um effectively uh occupied and took over a country of Korea and forced it to become Japan. And they were born into that that time during 1910 to 1945 when Korea was removed from the map because uh Japan took over. And and uh Japan was involved in the World War II, and that there were it was run by a bunch of military generals, so they ran it like um colony slash um uh uh occupied people, and and it was a brutal ruling. And so my parents had to learn speak Japanese, they were forced to speak Japanese, not Korean, or they would be punished. And and then when the the war ended and Korea was liberated in 1945, um, they were able to speak Korean again and write Korean, and then but then you know they were young teenagers when Korea became liberated in 1945, and then the war started in 1950, when my parents were in high school, they were like 16, 17-year-olds. And Korean War was devastating, you know, it was centered around the ideological difference between the social socialism and capitalism, right? And two very different ideologies of how the society should be uh lived. And so they survived the Korean War and they they you know went to college despite the difficulties and challenges. Uh things were very tough because Korea was very impoverished uh in the 1950s and 60s after the war and was one of the most poorest countries in the world, um, even poorer than some of the African countries or Southeast Asian countries. And then, you know, the story is that they uh met and they fell in love and they started a family. And I was born in 1961. And, you know, growing up in Korea in the 60s was, you know, I didn't know it back then, but looking back, we didn't have running water or or or like a uh like plumbing system. So uh, you know, I describe about how the the bathroom was just a hole on the floor and and there was no running water. And so uh I think that made me very resilient uh in hindsight. And that's was one of the discoveries that that that difficult um environment uh where there were not many resources and and things were very scarce, and that made me become more resourceful, more resilient. And and so on my motorcycle travels across America in the you know, during the COVID era when I was in my 60s, I had so much time to think about who I am and how did I get here, and how did I become so lucky to be able to enjoy this beautiful motorcycle travel on the back of a motorcycle across beautiful country. And and it made me look back and I realized my childhood in Korea is part of what shaped me and what made me uh become an entrepreneur in Silicon Valley and become a founder of my own tech company. Um, and then like uh going on a long adventure motorcycle travels to Alaska by myself and to Newfoundland, to Patagonia and South America. And I realized that these are all interconnected and that my past was what enabled me to be who I am today and what gave me purpose for the future.

Hun And The Pain Of Division

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, I you know, this type of experience being raised until the age of 14 in a country that was divided and in pain, and like you're saying, the way that your parents lived, the way that you needed to live. What did that you're you're kind of explaining like what it did to you and how it's carried on into your adulthood, but how do you carry the pain of Korea?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Well, you know, it still hurts me to see the country divided after, you know, 70 years of armistice being signed in Korea. Uh, you know, when uh armistice was signed in 1953. Um I was talking to my mother last night. My mother is 92 years old now.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

She has an older sister who's 100 years old, and but she's she's she's in a nursing home in Korea, in a hospice, she's not doing well. And so it may be it, it it it I'm I'm hearing from my mom and um my cousin that she her days may be you know numbered in days or weeks at most. And I think it brought back the hun of my mother that my mother carries. Hun is this Korean word that describes unresolved pain and trauma and just the deep um deep sorrow that one feels for not having had certain opportunities or having to suffer as a result of lacking in finances or difficulties that one goes through. And my aunt became a widow when she was 25 years old with three children, and she had to raise three children by herself and lived as a widow. She never remarried for 75 years. And now she's in her final days of her life, and it brings a lot of uh pain and and um feeling of Han for my mother. And so, yeah, I think that divided Korea still is a uh source of uh uh broken heart for most Koreans. There's about 80 million Koreans around the world. Um there are three million um or two and a half million American Koreans in America, and so it it is a tragedy. It is a tragedy of how one people in one country was divided up along the ideological differences between capitalist South backed by the United States and socialist North, supported by Soviet Union or now Russia and China, who share that socialist um ideology.

Turning Scarcity Into Adventure

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah, you really paint a really great picture of what was happening until now. Um, I could feel all of it. Uh, one of the things that stuck out to me was that while your parents, you know, you were going through this, they were trying to shield you from what was going on. And they would even turn poverty into moments of adventure. And that was a lesson I think that was woven throughout your book. Talk about how adventure, you're a very adventurous person, how it turned your pain into a search for new and carved a path of opportunity instead of defeat. Because I think that you learned that very young.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yes. So, you know, um when I was growing up in Korea, um, one nice thing about growing up in Seoul, South Korea in the 60s was that it was very safe. And I was able to go out and play with uh kids around the neighborhood. We would play in the small alleyways, go to the schoolyard and play there, or hike up to these hills and mountains behind our house. Um, we were living in this hentongne, which is kind of like means like you know, neighborhoods on the hills, and there are no roads that cars could go up to. So the houses were relatively inexpensive. So, but it was uh kind of an area where less affluent people could live. And I had a lot of friends in the neighborhood. And um, I think just my my father was busy working and my mother was at home, but she let us go out and play. And so I had a lot of freedom growing up when I was, you know, as young as two, three, four, five, and up to 13, 14 years old. So that gave me a lot of um, I think, in a sense of independence and adventure. Uh, you know, I was free to roam and go play and and and go through the you know trash dumps to like look for interesting things to collect and bring it home. And my mother would say, Why'd you bring such a junky stuff? But to me, they were kind of valuable stuff that could be reused, you know. So anyway, I think that upbringing was very um uh very good for me. Um, and then I realized me riding motorcycle across you know, North American continent, that's a pretty adventurous thing. And and and a lot of the rides I was on my own. So if something would break down or some, you know, if I was like, you know, injured, you know, I had to deal with these things by myself on the road. But that that resilience growing up in Korea as a free roaming child, you know, helped me that with that. And the other thing that I would want to share is that I talk about the concept of shindage, which is a Korean word for being in this extreme like uh joy, positive enthusiasm, feeling you know, such joy and and um uh positive um uh feeling. I I felt that when I was riding my motorcycle as a 15-year-old teenager in San Jose, California. And then again in my 60s, when I was riding across the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and the beautiful places in Alaska. So that sense of shindage, it's sort of the opposite of the Korean hun, right? That that unresolved pain and and suffering. And and the shindage is sort of an antidote to that hun. So it's interesting how I was able to enjoy uh my motorcycle travels that sort of uh was a counter to that longing for you know uh something better uh because of the divided Korea and all the sufferings that my parents had to go through and and uh and a very difficult time that they had to live through.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Right. I mean, your your family was I think that what you're explaining, your family did all the time without even really realizing it. I mean, your family was about success and resilience. Nothing stopped your family from turning pain into purpose. And your dad, I mean, he wasn't perfect, he had some problems, but you know, he was with what he went through very heroic. And your mom walking 170 miles alone at 15 in order to survive, I mean, that kind of strength doesn't disappear, it gets passed down from generations. What did you see in your mom that stayed with you in shape to you became?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, so my father was uh very uh, I mean, they were both very loving, but my father had this kind of a strict side to him, very firm and uh and uh uh leader-like. He was an authoritarian type of person because of the the style of you know, uh personality he had. But my mother, on the other hand, was more warm, soft, uh, loving, caring. And so I think, you know, I got both sort of the leadership qualities um and professional and kind of um firm characteristics from my father, as well as kind of a warm, soft, affectionate, and loving side from my mother. Yeah, you know, my my mother would read uh books to me when I was um eight, nine years old. And these are novels written by some of the uh most famous novelists in Korea. Um, there was uh Yi Guangsu, uh who's uh one of the most famous novelists in Korea, and she would read some books um to me, and that that reading for me as an early as a young child gave me a love of reading. And I grew up, you know, uh reading Korean books and and even English books in America. And I think that was the basis for me being able to write my own book uh in my 60s. And so, but you know, yeah, my um mother walking home um to flee the the war to escape the war from Seoul, Korea to her hometown of Namwan, which is about 170 miles away over a period of six, seven days, that was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

But you know, I I I sort of think of a lot of things as uh no big deal. It's just like it it was survival. It was she did it out of uh you know survival. And so I didn't think much of it, but I as I was writing my book and and telling my stories about my family and myself, I realized, oh, these are pretty, pretty um challenging feats that that were not easy to do. You know, it was that Korean War and the circumstances that kind of forced it to happen, but then it became a basis or foundation for strength and resilience uh for us um later on.

The Relatives Who Opened America

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, talk about foundation. I mean, your Aunt Gemma, if that's how you say it, and your Uncle Philip, I mean, they paved the way for your family in the United States. And it was their stories are amazing. If you could talk about them, how did their journey help your family believe that something bigger was possible?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Oh, absolutely. So, you know, I I write about this in my book, Coming Alive on the Ride, about how I was able to come to America, and it starts from my aunt wanting to go abroad to study, uh, to to uh have a better future for herself, and my grandparents having the vision and conviction to support her because I mean, to be able to buy an airplane ticket to go to America or Austria, where she went to first uh for the first time, it it was it in today's money, maybe a few hundred thousand dollars. And most families don't have that kind of money, right? And so so, but my my grandparent parents were lucky that they had something. My mother grandmother was doing uh money exchanging type of work, and and she said she had a lot of like business then, and she was able to make enough money to buy a ticket for my uh Aunt Gemma to go abroad to Vienna, Austria, and then later to Utah, uh Utah State University in Utah. And my uncle has another amazing story in that he was he had to flee North Korea uh during the war as a 12 or 13-year-old teenager, and and he was hidden in a US military truck in the back of the truck, loaded onto this um military supply ship. And and during that process, he was separated from his family and became an orphan, war orphan. And he got a job at the US military army base uh as a houseboy, you know, somebody who does whatever work that to help the soldiers and and you know got some food and and and place to stay for that work. And then and then he, you know, he shined shoes on the street while he was going to high school and and but he had a dream of going to America and studying and making something of himself. And he he um basically managed to pass the foreign uh going abroad test to be able to go, and then um had an American friend who sponsored him to come to America. So as a 27-year-old young man, he came to Utah State University, studied electrical engineering, and got a job at Ford in Detroit, and then NCR in Cincinnati, Ohio, and then later moved to San Jose, California in the early 70s when the computer industry was starting to boom in Silicon Valley. And so it was that sort of story and the background that allowed my parents and my family to come to America in 1976 and then start a new life because my parents didn't see how they could send us to college and provide education for us to be able to, you know, uh realize our potential. And so it was a big decision for my parents to come to America when they were 42 and they didn't speak English and they weren't very good with the language. So they knew that they were they were gonna have a very challenging time adjusting to new world, new country, but they were convinced that US would provide better education for us and better opportunity for us. So that's that's why they decided to come for really our future, not so much that they could um uh for their own uh prosperity, although they felt that they could do better in the US.

Purpose Through Service And Faith

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Your family would just leap, they would just do what was difficult and with because they just knew it was best. And it's that pain, you know, that pain didn't break your family, it built something unshakable. And there's the thread of resilience and discipline and purpose generation after generation in your family. And you've talked about values like the, and I know I'm gonna butcher this, but it's H-O-N-G-I-K-H- A about wanting to live in a way that benefits humanity. Yes, the Gandhi quote the best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others, you know. And do you feel like your journey, everything that you've built and rebuilt, ultimately led you to the place, this place of purpose?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yes. So the the Korean philosophy of hung, hungik philosophy, um, which is to live a life in a way that benefits all mankind, not just your family or yourself or just your country for all mankind, right? And that was uh something that struck me when I was uh young. And and you know, when I came to America uh as a 14-year-old teenager, uh we started going to a um uh church in San Jose, and we I I came to believe in um in Jesus Christ as my savior and and God, and I uh developed a strong faith, um, which is very important to me. And and I I loved how Jesus told us to love one another and and uh be the salt and light of this world. And I I felt like there were some parallels or similarity between the philosophy, Cahonic philosophy and of like being beneficial to all mankind and the Christian philosophy or teaching, Jesus is teaching of loving one another and being the light and salt to to be a benefit to other people, other others. So um, you know, as I was writing my book toward the end, I was thinking about what is the message that I want to share with the readers. And it I realized that uh my sort of calling is to be a A source of um uh encouragement and motivation and inspiration for people to um go out of their comfort zone and embrace the adventure, do something challenging for themselves, because that's how I succeeded in my life. And I want I that's what I learned on the road. And I want to encourage others to um, you know, even though it may be a little scary or or uh fearful, as long as it's not fatal, just push yourself and do something that's a little bit challenging. Because once you if you do that, then you'll learn uh more about what you're capable of and find out find a better version of themselves and live a more meaningful life.

Arriving At 14 Without English

SPEAKER_00 22:43

That is absolutely so important, you know, because many times success is right on the next step. And if we just keep pushing ourselves, you know, we might be able to get there, but not stopping before. You had to leave everything that you ever knew and step into a completely new world, a new country, a new language, a new identity. And you came to America at 14, like we said, but you didn't speak English, not quite fitting in. I mean, you were lost. You you didn't understand your peers or your teachers. And I think that people hear that, but they really can't comprehend it. Can you talk about that feeling right then as uh in a foreign land, not being able to understand anything around you?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, so it was uh it's it feels very isolating, it feels very lonely. Um and to be honest, I still feel that even now. Um, when I'm in a uh gathering or at a place where uh I'm uh I'm the only Asian or only Korean. And and um so that that I mean the language part is much better and sort of cultural norms is, you know, I I have more familiarity, but you know, that sense that I'm not like, you know, people love to to talk to and hang around with other people like them, um, unless they're forced into having forced or kind of pushed into you know being around with uh other people who are not like them. And so uh so I don't I don't fault anybody, it's just how humans are, and it's sort of you know, thousands of years of um conditioning uh as you know human beings in you know different like um you know places and and groups. So, but you know, uh being the only person um uh who could not speak English in high school and uh not having friends and and not understanding what even teacher was saying was very uh isolating and and lonely feeling, but that only made me want to try harder to to to you know work twice as hard just so that I could uh be at the same level as other students. And so uh I think that was what drove me. And I I I loathed at the the thought of failing in in life and struggling and financially. And that's what kind of drove me to um pursue a career in business, especially in technology business, uh, so that uh I won't have to struggle like my parents, and I will live a life of um you know comfort financially and also uh a life of uh purpose to be able to make a positive difference. Because one cannot do that without having some financial uh basis um to be able to support themselves and their family.

Racism Then Closure Decades Later

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah. And you absolutely were able to do that. I love that part of your story, and we will get there. I want to talk about that. Um, but there were moments when I want to talk about this first because when you were in high school and you were here, you know, there's one thing when there's bullies and people are not being nice. And maybe the soccer, the kid on your soccer team really didn't mean to say that. But I'll tell you, I mean, the way that you would handle those types of situations where people would say things to you to make you feel like an outsider or different, um, even though that you felt a part of the team, that was a moment where here, you're a part of the team, but no, this is who you really are. Or, you know, I mean, that felt cruel, and I don't know if he meant it, but what you would do in those situations was laugh it off. And it happened more than once. Did you think that you responded the way that you wanted to? What do you wish that you would have responded differently?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I was uncomfortable and I knew that he didn't mean bad, but it he was making fun of situation at my expense uh because I was different. Yeah, there was really I had limited choices on how I respond. And and I I decided to kind of just laugh it off rather than getting getting angry at him and and you know picking a uh you know, making the whole situation uncomfortable. And so I I chose the path of peace rather than chaos or conflict, um because that was more uh peaceful way of uh carrying myself. And but you know, it was interesting how I ran into that goalkeeper, uh Mike McClellan. I still we're still friends, but okay, yeah, he became uh um US history teacher at this high school in San Jose, right? And um he was chosen as one of the best teachers, so he got to go to Yale University for this special program for six months, and he's a distinguished teacher and um of US history. But when I uh ran into him during my 40th high school reunion, and I asked him, Do you remember that that that time where you made a fun of me as uh my little yellow friend? And he remembered it. And his face turned red because he's now uh you know in his uh late 50s, respected high school teacher. But when he was uh in high school, he was a jokester, he was like um kind of you know rowdy and just like uh uh you know picking on me as uh and using some racist jokes or or you know funny comments like that at my expense. He was very apologetic. He he like reached out and grabbed my arm with his two hands and I said, I'm so sorry, Min. Min was my name in high school because this was Michael is my adopted name uh when I became a US citizen during college, but and said, I'm so sorry, Michael. Uh Min. And um so I said, It's okay, Mike, it's it's all fine. Um I know you didn't mean bad, but I was uncomfortable when you did that, but I laughed it off because there was not much I could do to to you know make things work out for the for the you know friends who were right there.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

I am so glad that you had that conversation and had some closure on that. And I'm glad, of course, you know, we do things when we're kids that we don't really mean, and that happens, but I'm glad that you got to have a face-to-face with him.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yes, yes. That was uh that was uh a good feeling for me that he because it was something that stayed in my heart all my life, right? See, see, that happened when I was 16, and this was when we were 56, right? So for 40 years I was carrying that memory, and it was something in his memory too. So when I brought up that that that conversation, he immediately apologized because he also it bothered him too.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

See, people don't realize that how we're how much words hurt and how much they can carry in a person, you can carry it for years and years and years. I was bullied by somebody in high school, and uh I said something to him, and he said, You're not over that yet. You see, I mean, it's something that you don't forget, and it it sometimes is as raw as when it happened, even decades later.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Words are powerful.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Oh my gosh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Spoken or written.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

And but I what I really love is that when you found taekwondo and it became more than just a hobby, I mean, it became a bridge, it became your confidence and identity and belonging. I mean, if you could talk about taekwondo and what it gave you in the season where you were trying to find yourself.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Okay, yeah. So, you know, uh my father uh went through America first uh by himself, and um uh we joined him in America like almost two years uh later. And when my father came to America um in 1974, he had to do different odds and ends jobs. So he was working at a dishwasher and you know, cleaner at this um bar establishment, like as a bartender assistant. And and and so he would write us uh postcards. And what in one of the postcards, he encouraged, he said to me and my brother to um uh you know, in America, um you need to be able to speak in English. And so um go to the English Hagwan or a tutoring place where you could learn to speak, you know, English. And the second thing is that he said that in America, the um the teenagers um, you know, a similar age to us are very big. And um, and so he said, go to go to uh taekwondo school and take taekwondo and and and train to become a black belt so that you will have uh you won't be pushed around, basically, to be able to stand our ground and and not get pushed around and and pushed down. And so uh and my brother and I did, and we trained really hard and got black belt in taekwondo. And in when we came to America, uh I continue to practice because there was a choice taekwondo school near my house, uh near my apartment in San Jose. So I would just ride bicycle to Taekwondo school and continue to work out with other other taekwondo students there. And when I was in junior or senior in high school, I was in the varsity soccer team. You know, I tried out, I made the team, and I was um uh playing like you know, center forward or half positions. Or um, and during one of the practices, um I write about this experience in my book Coming Alive on the Ride.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I I was basically bullied by this other player who was much bigger than me. He was from um some Eastern European country, he was also an immigrant, but uh we had a little tussle over the soccer ball, and I was trying to control the situation by walking away, but he like came and pushed me really hard using all his power and weight, and I almost fell down, and he was basically, you know, moving his fist up and down and had this very uh uh weird grin on his face. Um, and I I I kind of had this moment where, oh, I I uh I need to do something here and I need to defend myself to maintain some sense of dignity and self-uh respect. So I um I did a sliding reverse round kick and and and and uh I basically got him uh right on the nose. Uh and he he went down and and he never like like retaliated. He was I basically managed to keep him from continuing the fight, and and I walked away after that. And and you know, he he was okay. He had some uh uh you know temporary injury to his um nose. But yeah, so that after that incident, I could sense that other students, soccer teammates, even football players in high school, they were giving me more space in the locker room, and they looked at me as oh, that guy knows something that that uh that martial arts have gone to martial arts, so we should not like pick on him or make fun of him or like pick fights with him because he knows an art that that um we don't want to mess around with. And so that experience gave me uh a strong sense of power, I guess, to be able to defend myself um if I was pushed into something. And you know, later I got up to fourth degree black belt. And uh as a master, I taught you know, students in at Taekwondo schools. And so, you know, Taekwondo mastery is um is uh it's one part of my physical and mental training that helps me be grounded about who I am and and what I'm capable of, so that even as a minority, as an Asian kid or Asian person, I won't be taken lightly and that you know I can uh use that mental training and physical training to my benefit for my benefit, including my motorcycle travels across America, because I need to have a strong sense of self-control about new places that I'd be riding through, right? And there could be some, you know, um um dodgy spots that I need to be able to defend myself if something were to get out of control.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Yeah, I don't think very many people would want to mess with you. I mean, um I also remember that story of you. I I can't remember if they they wanted you to show what you could do at school or something, and and they were all around you, and the school newspaper captured this, like you know, where your foot went up over your head, and and they captured it and they printed it in the newspaper, and so you absolutely were uh you you gained support and uh respect through through that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Could I show you that photo? I have it in my book here.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

This is uh uh this picture at the bottom is when I was doing taekwondo demonstration at my high school. Okay. Uh I did a jumping front kick breaking two wooden boards um held by this uh uh friend Jeff on top of uh Master Tony Thompson. It's about eight or nine feet up in the air, so I had to run up and break the two boards using uh jumping front kick. Anyway, that was uh interesting experience as well, where I um, you know, was part of the taekwondo demonstration team for my taekwondo school, who came to my high school to to basically promote the the taekwondo as a uh uh as a sports, as a um self-defense training. And and so I was happy to be part of it. And after that uh demonstration, uh many people came up to me and and congratulated me for doing such a great job in demonstrating Taekwondo kicks, but also uh that how they were very impressed that uh I knew such art that they didn't know before.

Becoming A US Citizen

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Right. Yeah, I mean that was really an impressive part of your story. And of course you hit fourth degree, and of course you're you know, are a master at your um craft because uh that's what you do in everything. It it doesn't surprise me at all. Uh and I wanted to ask you what it felt like for you. I mean, because you guys have been U.S. citizens for a really long time. You've been here, you've been acclimated. And uh so what did it feel like for you to become that United States citizen?

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Oh, so you know, we became um naturalized U.S. citizen in 1982 because um after being a permanent resident for five years, uh according to the immigration law, you could apply for U.S. citizenship and go through the testing process. And if you pass that test, then you become naturalized U.S. citizens. So I did this when I was um, you know, 19, 20 years old, which is about 40, almost 45 years ago now. And I remember my father telling us when we were um when I was like 17 years old, that uh we're all going to uh go test to become US US citizen because uh we're not going back to Korea. Uh we'll live here. This is our new home. And our children will be will live here, they'll go to school here, they'll live here. So this is our new country. Um, Korea is our mother country, but this is our new country. And so uh, yes, we we said, okay, sure, yeah. I mean, you know, my father was the leader of our family, and and so we all went through that US citizenship testing process uh and passed, and we sworn, you know, uh to become a US citizen. And so it was uh a momentous occasion, and um I'm I'm uh you know very you know proud to be an American. I love uh uh this country. I love American, I consider myself an American as well as Korean and Korean American. So I have this sort of dual uh identity uh just because of my heritage, um, as well as you know, uh where I live and where I pay my taxes and where I vote for the public office to represent me in a democratic country. And so uh and I want what's best for America, for my children. And so I care about the direction of America, make sure that it's going in the right direction, and that it will continue to provide good opportunities for uh newcomers to pursue uh their own American dreams, and and that this country provides um you know good living and good opportunity for everybody, you know. And so that's that's kind of my journey in the US citizenship and becoming an American as well as being a Korean.

Motorcycles As Freedom And Shindage

SPEAKER_00 40:51

It's a beautiful story. And uh, you know, you weren't just learning how to survive in a new country, you were learning who you were becoming and going from Korea to the United States and becoming who you are today. I mean, it was such a long process, and you were finding your footing and your identity and your confidence, and sometimes those turning points don't come from the big, obvious moments, and sometimes they come from something small, and you do point out the small things a few times in your book, which I loved, but uh, and sometimes the the unexpected something that ends up changing everything for you was something very small, and it was your motorcycle, which you kind of touched on, but you got this bike for$200, and it meant everything to you. You kind of hid it from your parents, which was kind of funny, but you know, I love that because sometimes the things that shape us the most don't look like much to the outside. What did that bike give you emotionally at that point in your life?

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah, so you know, when I was 15 years old uh in San Jose, um, I bought a um, you know, used Yamaha 100cc Enduro motorcycle for$200 from uh another teenager in my neighborhood because um I was my high school was um a little bit far from our apartment. We were living in a two-bedroom apartment, you know, five of us in our family. And so um I needed transportation to get to school in a shorter time. And I was working at 7-Eleven store as a clerk uh as a on a part-time job while I was going to high school. And so uh, you know, I had I had never I never owned a bicycle in Korea. I mean, because we didn't have any money. Uh so you know, such was life. Um, but when I was um living in um San Jose, I, you know, a few months after we arrived, I got a used um, you know, 10-speed Huffy bicycle that I got for$20 from another Taekwondo student. So it was a used Huffy orange color 10-speed bike. And that was a lot of fun. It was like, wow, I I have my own 10-speed bicycle in America. It's like just a huge step up. Then when I heard that there was a another you know, teenager in my neighborhood uh who was selling his um uh Yamaha motorcycle because he was getting a bigger bike. I asked him how much he wanted for it. He said 200. I said, okay, I had just saved just enough money, 200, in my in my um Crocker bank account. So I said, I'll buy it from you. And I realized that I bought my motorcycle as a 15 year old without even checking with my parents because they were all busy working. So this is this is an extension of them letting me do what I do, like going out and playing outside and you know, exploring the town. And and so I bought it. And then unfortunately, a few months after I bought it. I had to park it on the street overnight because there was no parking space for the motorcycle in the apartment. It was only one space for my father's car. But one day I came out to go to school with my helmet and my backpack, but then the bike was gone. Somebody had stolen it overnight. So I was really devastated. But then I didn't have money to buy another one. And I was, you know, got my driver's license. So I started driving. And, you know, that was another exciting moment, getting my own car when I was 16. So I didn't ride motorcycle for a long time. But then when I was like 47 years old, uh, when my new startups uh weren't going anywhere, and my dream of becoming the CEO of a public company on NASDAQ was dashed, I was struggling. I was like stressed out because the company that I founded wasn't going anywhere. But that's when I had the itch to ride motorcycle. And I think it was my body telling me, you gotta have some fun for yourself. You know, work is great, your family is great, and you've had success. But then, you know, you need to some have some fun for yourself too. And so, with permission from my wife, I got a you know, uh 225cc Yamaha, and I started riding in the mountains in uh San Francisco Bay Area, and then later in Southern California. And so that motorcycle was so much fun for me to ride. Um, and it was so exciting. It gave me a sense of freedom, independence, excitement, that shinnage feeling of like being on your own and you could go anywhere. And and then the other thing is I had a college friend, Carl, who I um discovered, you know, we were doing taekwondo together at Berkeley and we became really good friends. And we found out that we went to some elementary school in Korea. We didn't know each other back then, but and then you know, in our mid middle ages, we found out that we both ride motorcycle and we enjoy like you know, uh traveling. So he and I started going to short trips down to San Diego, to San Francisco, and then before we knew it, we were riding to Utah, Seattle, Yellowstone National Park, Badlands, I mean, everywhere along the America's West. And then we eventually made it out to Newfoundland. And he was from Seattle, I was in LA, so we would meet up near Niagara Falls in New York and continue our ride to Newfoundland and come back. That that time of motorcycle travel uh with Carl was another great moment of realization about me and my my background because he and I were so similar in so many ways. And and we were raised in Korea together, we lived in America at a similar time, and we both had this love of uh adventure, travel. And so that was, I think, one of the pivotal moments in my life where um, you know, I learned how to do long-distance travel from Carl because he was more experienced than I. Later on, I became um my experienced enough that I could do my own travel. So when Carl was busy with his work as a lawyer in Seattle and he couldn't go to Alaska with me, I decided to go by myself uh on a solo travel to Alaska. But um, yeah, the motorcycle is just amazing. It's like a wing. Uh, it allows you to fly. And I tell my family and friends that riding a motorcycle is like flying three feet above the ground. And I can go anywhere. And Rose leads me anywhere around the world. Yeah. So anyway, that's kind of my my experience with motorcycle and how I love riding it. And I continue, I want to continue to ride motorcycle all around the world uh as long as I can.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah, I can tell that uh it gave you a sense of freedom that created from the time that you were 15 all the way through. And I was gonna ask you, how can you explain what it feels like? I mean, there's traveling for sightseeing, but then there's a traveling where it's changing your soul. And that's what you did. If you could talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yes. So, you know, going on um, I think riding motorcycle for a few hours during the day around your house is a great experience. And, you know, I would ride from my hometown of La Cañada in LA to Malibu Beach or through the Angeles Crest Highway through the mountains behind my house here. And that's exciting, but you know, going on a multi-day trip was kind of scary, you know. And um, I was fortunate that I had friends like Carl and another friend Robert, who was also a motorcycle rider, who was a pastor and a missionary to Cambodia. But uh I write about our first trip to San Diego and El Centro near the Mexico border. And you know, it's kind of um exciting and also uh scary because you're riding so long and you're going to places that you've never been to. So there's that uh lot of unknowns and uncertainties. You don't know what could happen. And you know, the weather could turn bad, or you may run into conditions that you didn't expect, the motorcycle could break down, or you could get stuck somewhere. There are a lot of unknowns. So it was scary, but also exciting because it's just an exciting thing to travel and go to new places. So I think that what I learned from these multi-day trips is that if I could just overcome my own fear and and and and know that uh the the worst case that could happen is that I may not be able to get to my destination and come home early, or you know, get my motorcycle towed, or you know, worst case, I could get injured. So uh, you know, I'm wearing the helmet and uh very uh protective gear when I'm riding, including a safety vest with airbag and stuff like that. Um and so, but the the upside of the motorcycle travel is so good. It's like, oh my gosh, shindage all the way, right? It's like such a blissful experience that um and and that that trade-off between the amount of benefit and the joy and the excitement that I get is thousand times bigger than a small downside risk of something not going right or uh some you know negative consequences. So it's it's uh you know, I I would take that all day long, that chance that you know the benefit far outweighs the potential cost. And a lot of times the cost is nothing because nothing happens. And people have this fear that motorcycle riding is dangerous and motorcycle traveling is dangerous, but it's not that different than driving or riding bicycle across town. And so, but people do that every day. And so uh, you know, I came to realize that being able to ride motorcycle and travel on it, if you can handle it, is a great knowledge and and skill to have because it gives you that freedom that's totally different than walking or driving a car.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Yeah, it feels like a completely different experience to go across country on the back of a bike. And maybe it's that uh I and I know I can't say the word, but that word that you said, the feeling of being fully alive, fully present when your mind, when your mind, body, and soul are all engaged in the exact same moment.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Exactly. That word shindage, it's a Korean word. You're like in the zone, you're like in the flow because you're enjoying that that time so much. And I felt that so many times when I was riding motorcycle across America and South America.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, I don't think that we do very many things in our life that are that.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

That we know, and you know, it's what um, you know, I think when we were young, when we were children, we would do different kinds of plays and do different activities that gives us that Schnaga feeling. But then when we grow up, I think a lot of times we forget about those things.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

So it's about kind of you know, reconnecting with your, you know, the joy that you had, that fun activity or fun thing that you did by yourself or with somebody else that you need to tap into and go back to. And so yeah, I think that's kind of one of the messages of my book. So, you know, get in touch with yourself uh through adventure travels, but also discover what you uh what you enjoyed because a lot of times um that's that's kind of my your body is kind of yearning to to go back and have that fun and um fun and joy.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

On the road in motion, disconnected from everything, familiar. Uh what do you hear most in your head? I don't like your thoughts, your purpose, your truth. Do you are you like connecting with all of that?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times I'm I'm kind of bored because I'm writing for hours and hours. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Well that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, so I listen to music in my helmet, you know, speakers and um uh I uh but a lot of other times I am I'm thinking really. Uh I'm thinking um what I feel, what I see, uh uh some experience that I had, you know, earlier that day or the past week, you know, think about family and what's you know what some of the issues that I'm dealing with, um decisions. And so it's everything. I mean, it's like, but the the the difference when I'm riding motorcycle is that I am hyper-focused and and uh it's it's uh all sensory experience. You know, I have to uh be very alert to ride motorcycle at you know 60, 70 miles per hour, and I have to control the the motorcycle machine, but then 99% of the time I'll be out in the open highway all by myself. There are no other traffic. And so you have time to think, and it's like being in a state of um sort of focused mind and concentration for long periods of time. And and I think that was one of the reasons why I was able to think about the stories of my life to write my uh book, Coming Alive on the Ride. And and yeah, so I think it wasn't for that journey of on the back of a motorcycle across America that I that I uh would have written this book.

Seeing The Web For The First Time

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Well, I'm glad you did. And one of the things that your story makes so clear is that there is nothing quite like a journey to reset you, to strip everything back and show you who you really are. And reading your story, you can feel that transformation happening in real time. Not just where you were going, but who you were becoming along the way. And there was another side to you which I really want to talk about because it was a complete surprise. And thank you for the tech history. And I felt like I was living in it. I mean, I did live through it, and but you had a front row seat, you stood at the edge of something that changed the world. And you were there at the very beginning of the internet, before it became what we know today. Emails, early computing. You met Steve Jobs and met the founder of Pong and Atari. And and you know, by the way, I owned an Atari and I played Pong. I can remember sitting in my bedroom with Pong and putting it in for the very first time and thinking this is the most amazing thing in the world, you know. So it means you know, you weren't just a part, you were a part of history. That's what you were. You were living in it. And there's this moment, you know. I stopped when I read this. There's this moment in your book that you describe, and I want you to talk about it, where they take you into the office and they like put in the words www.yahoo.com, and what happens for the first time with you?

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Yeah, so that was uh one of the biggest turning moments in my life, turning points in my life. Uh, this was around 1993 or 94, um, when there was a new invention called uh World Wide Web uh by Tim Berners-Lee uh at this uh European uh laboratory in Switzerland and Mark Andriessen, who was uh inventor of the graphic browser called Mosaic. And so I was attending um UC Berkeley um uh high school of business in the evening to um get my MBA degree uh while I was working full-time uh in Silicon Valley. And so I carpooled with other students who was also working professionals who was taking this evening class with me uh in San Francisco. So during one of those rides, you know, driving back home, uh one of the classmates um uh he said, you know, have you heard of uh Mosaic Browser? I said, Oh, what's that? And he said, Well, it's a new piece of software that you could run on your PC, and through that, you could look at information from websites all around the world. And this was in the 19 early 90s, where you know computers were a pretty new thing, and and computers were uh people were using AOL or Prodigy or CompuServe to dial up at this low speed of modems at 2400 baws or 9600 bauds. There was no internet back then, but then he said, it's a new invention that's that's really interesting. So could could I see it? And he said, sure, you could just come to my office uh because we had parked our cars there for carpooling and took me to his uh office and he turned on his um workstation computer at Sun Microsystem and he typed in um you know www.yahoo.com through this mosaic browser, and then there was all kinds of information. He said that web server is located halfway across the country, and he showed me another website that was in Europe, and so I go, Oh my god, this is amazing. So all kinds of light bulbs were going off in my in my brain because this was revolutionary.