What If We Stopped Making Children adapt to a One-Size-Fits-All School and Started Building the System Around Them?

Welcome And Kids’ Needs Today

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Ann. I am Anne. Today we're talking about something that impacts every family, every school, and every community, our children. Many kids today are struggling with anxiety and trauma and emotional regulation and behavioral challenges, social pressures and mental health concerns in ways that we haven't seen before. But what if instead of asking what's wrong with this child, we started asking what happened to this child or what does this child need to succeed? Our guest today is Erin Simpson, principal of Grizzly Academy in the Wadsworth City School District in Ohio, an educator who has dedicated 29 years to supporting children and families. Erin has been recognized statewide for her leadership. She was named the Ohio Association of Elementary School Administrators National Distinguished Principal and later served on the OAESA board of directors, including a term as president. So she knows what she's talking about. She leads the Grizzly Academy, a program designed to meet students where they are, created for students who struggle in traditional school settings. Grizzly Academy provides a smaller, relationship-based environment that supports the whole child while allowing students to remain part of their district community. So, Erin, thank you for this incredible work that you do and thank you for being here today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Thank you for having me, Anne. I'm very excited to be here and share our story of Grizzly Academy.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So I want to start with the story behind your

A Safe Place Called Grizzly Academy

SPEAKER_00 2:00

school. When someone hears the name Grizzly Academy, what do you want them to know about the heart of the program?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

I really want them to know that this is a safe and amazing place for our students to be, that every staff member who joins our team believes in them, loves them, and is there for them no matter what that need might be in that moment. And that it is a place where so much learning happens, uh social emotional learning as well as academic learning. So we are a school. We are, our kids are showing so much growth academically as well as that primary social emotional piece that we spend a lot of time on as a team.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Why it exists and who is it for? Yeah, all the things. Tell us all about that.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Uh so it came to be um this is our we are um just completed our third year of Grizzly Academy, and it started with conversations among our administrative team. Primarily, a lot of our elementary um administrators and our director of student services. Uh, she oversees all of our um special education, all of our 504s, um, mental health for students, that that whole umbrella. And so um, really a little bit pre-COVID and post-COVID, we we were just seeing a big change in some of the behaviors and needs our kids were coming to school with, and that ability to really uh be able to support them in the environment. Um, and so those conversations continued. Um, and Joyce Walker, who is that director, uh, led the charge of us saying, all right, we we have students attend other programs outside the district that work. Why, why do those work? What can we do here? Can we make it work here to keep our students as grizzlies? Because that's ultimately what we want. Um we want them working with our teachers, our curriculum, like knowing and and their home, their home families, you know, with their all just being a grizzly and being on that same calendar, um, but giving them that environment where they truly can be successful. Um, as far as who it's for, I always, you know, my kind of my tagline I've realized over the past three years it's developed is that there really is no typical Grizzly Academy Grizzly. We um serve students and so that have so many different needs. Um, it could be that anxiety, it could be that withdrawal, um, it could be a social emotional piece, autism. Um, you know, it just it varies by student and I would say by our staff members too. I I I tell everyone

Why The Program Was Created

SPEAKER_01 4:50

that everyone who is at Grizzly Academy is here for a reason, and we all needed this place.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

You know, that's just so beautiful what your school does. I mean, Grizzly Academy is providing when we ask the children to fit into a system, and instead you're building a system around the needs of the children, and that's so incredible. It is hard to meet the needs of every child. I mean, let's be honest. What does a day look like at Grizzly Academy and how does it look different from a typical public school?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Uh, so our day is just a little bit shorter than the traditional day. Um, it is uh, you know, by like 15 minutes maybe, but we're off the schedule of our typical um schools. So in our district, we have a high school, middle school start time, and then we have an elementary and intermediate level start time, and we fall in the middle. So our students, we are on their own bus because we know that for many of our students coming on a bus full of students to and every scene or more, um, that can already start their day off on and you know on a tough spot. Um, so we have our own bus routes that students are, you know, coming to our building on. Um, and then we start off, we try to start off with relationship building and connection and each day. Um, that's looked a little bit different every year that we've been here, um, just with our growth from year to year. Uh, and then we we build in academic pieces, but we um I always like to say, and I I stole this, you know, line from Joyce, but we remove the noise of school, you know, the transitions, the all the people in the hallways, the announcements that, you know, are are interrupting or are at a certain time, just really trying to make it as consistent. Every day pretty much looks the same here. Um, and fair, like firm, but fair is kind of what I look at, and and showing that care. And I don't even really like the word fair because fair is you know not the same for everyone. Um, but looking at really meeting just our students, our staff, our teams, um, where they are, our a lot of our classrooms are multi-age. Um, so just it depends on our numbers. Um, and we have much smaller class sizes, which is an obvious plus. Um, and we have really staffed it for success. So in our our K through six, what I like to call our littles, um, sixth graders don't like that very much, but our littles, um, they have in their classrooms, there is a general education teacher, an intervention specialist, and a behavior technician aid in each class. Um, and it's purposely staffed that way because when if if Aaron is having a moment and needs to step out of the classroom, or um, you know, Erin is having such a moment in the classroom that the other students need to need to go to another class that the staff can go with them, like the teachers can go with them and keep that instruction, keep that support going. And maybe it's just the behavior technician and our BCBA that are working with the student in need at that time. Um, but really a way to just give that support and keep learning happening, but not just that academic learning. So that is what our K6 realm

Designing A Calmer School Day

SPEAKER_01 8:10

looks like. 712 was new for us this year. Um, and I always say we learned so much in year one of our littles that we changed so much going into year two. And that will be the same with our 712 leading in. You know, we have a little bit of a blend of in-person instruction and some online um programming that our students complete. Um, some of them are starting off early in middle school or early high school. Some of them are maybe working on some credit recovery classes too, if they're older in high school. So we're catching them up. Um, you know, our goal is to make sure we get them graduated and get them onto their next path, whatever they want that path to be. We will support them and work with them through that. So um it really, and for our littles, I always say, you know, the earlier we get them, our goal is to build those skills of resiliency to be able to transition back to that traditional environment because we we know that that traditional environment is kind of life, right? And so we want to give them those opportunities, but we don't want to force them into that when they're struggling with that. And it's it's more detrimental than beneficial. So does that I hope that answers your question?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Oh, yeah, it does. And it proves that you really are meeting each child where they are. I was gonna ask you what the size of the classrooms is it the same all the way up, or how many, what what is the average size?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Um, well, it is um the I would say in in seven through 12, it really varies. A lot of this year, this past year, they they stayed by grade level almost in every class. Um, we got feedback from the kids that that was really hard because they never got a break from you know, it the the peers or those pieces. So we've looked at that and tried to find ways where we can mix those up. But those groups range, um, I think my smallest grade level in 712 is maybe three students at that grade level. And I believe that my largest is um nine students at a grade level. So that, you know, spans. Um looking ahead to next year, um, well, I guess just thinking back to first year, I I kind of had said that 10 would be probably like that seemed like that would be the max to really get the benefit that we were looking for. Um, well, I was proven wrong in that year because 10 is too many, actually. So really, when I look at it, um, what we've seen over the years is kind of eight is that sweet spot. So I try to stay there uh as we're planning. But also what is really neat about Grizzly is we move students around all, you know, within the classes to meet their needs. So we do really focused literacy instruction the first block of the day with Orton Gillingham, and our students move to all kinds of groups where they fit, where their level of instruction is. So that's a wide mix of student ages. Um then even in within language arts and math, we, you know, we want them to have the peer experiences with their peers and same-age peers and have that recess and that vocabulary, all those experiences, but we don't want to build that frustration if they're not there yet academically. So we will adjust and and you know, switch class placements even then. So it really um it's really dynamic how I I how my team works together to do things and and when a student shows us they're ready, like we're moving them, you know, maybe sometimes mid-year because they've shown like I'm ready for that next step. And um, so it again kind of goes back to that driven student, uh, individual student need, but really um eight is kind of my sweet spot, I say, I tell people. So six for kindergarten, but you really are a model program.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

I just can't, you know, there should be more schools like this that try to reach each child. And I do, it's very difficult for teachers that have large classrooms in order to do that. So it's very nice that you are able to be able to do that in your school.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Right. And we, I would say, uh so fortunate to be in the district that we are in and that the district decided to support this. This is we are considered, you know, um, I don't know how all states work, but in Ohio, we have, you know, emus codes that that students um we classify in. So we are considered a a public separate school. So we are um, you know, outside it within the district, but we are providing, you know, specific supports to students. Um here's the the piece, ever any district could choose to support this initiative. And but what I have found, and I uh I wouldn't you you can't make this program happen without staff that believes in this program and in our kids. And that is what it comes down to. It is our staff that that works together with one another so beautifully and works with the needs of our students and and truly believes and sees the reason for Grizzly Academy. If if you know a school was set up and all of a sudden you just plucked, you know, a teacher out of the classroom in the district that maybe didn't have any interest or desire to be there or knowledge or willing to learn more, it it wouldn't, it would flop. So I really uh attribute our success to the district supporting us and our teachers believing in our mission.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

And believing in the child. Yes. I mean, half the time at the center of our mission.

Small Classes And Flexible Instruction

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah, right, exactly. I mean, it uh sometimes all it takes is just for somebody to believe in uh in a child, and that really does make the difference. I mean, you have a front row seat to the realities that children and families are facing every single day when you look at all the systems designed to support them. Where do you see the biggest gaps? Do you feel that there are enough resources available? And where are we still falling short when it comes to supporting children's mental health overall, well-being, and families as a whole?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

I, you know, I've learned so much throughout um truly these three years of being here. Um, and and you know, prior to that learning pieces too, but I've gone into so much um, you know, I like to do a deep dive when I want to learn something. And I go all in and I'm, you know, reading or finding people I really, you know, I'm impressed with to follow. And and so I I just see that, you know, we have this knowledge, right? We know that self-regulation is a key for success for life for any human being in any, you know, in all of life situations. But we expect kids to just know how to do that, and they're not knowing how to do that. And then you bring in some of those pieces of, as you mentioned at the beginning, some of the trauma or experiences or losses, you know, grief over time, just different situations that happen, how much of an impact that has. Um, and I really believe if if every, you know, I've read this, so it's not my idea, you know, I've read this and believe this, and most recently just heard it um on a on another podcast um with Jessica Sinarsky, who is is is amazing. I've just recently found her um with brave brains, and I've been like digging deep in there. So if you can get her on and join, have me back because I would love to meet her. But um, safe and secure relationships is that number one piece that any human needs to really thrive. And so if every child had at least one safe and secure relationship, just what a difference that alone could make. Um, and then, you know, just a balance of that, those mental health supports and how do we learn and how do we grow? I I I believe the gap is that it's it wants to be a team decision and grouping between family and school and outside resources and all those, but it's just not always possible to get that all connected or to say, hey, we we are connected, we know the needs, but where do we get the help to support those needs? So I I know that's probably not the clearest answer, but I just think there are gaps in what um, you know, we've learned as educators, what we've been prepared to to work with with children, and then what what parents know, you know, guardians know. There's so many students now that are either being raised by grandparents or in foster care or adopted, all of those pieces come in, and there are just layers of that um that we need to understand and support, and it doesn't fit inside the traditional box of education that has been there since you know I was in school.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah, I as a parent of children with significant needs, I there have been times when I felt like I had to be an ad, an advocate, a case manager, a therapist, a researcher, and you know, parent all at once. So I love that Grizzly Academy does what they do uh because schools pretty schools today have become responsible for so much more than education, what you just said. And we're talking, you guys are helping with the mental health, food insecurities, trauma, social skills, and family support. Teaching academics is almost comes, it almost comes in second to all of that. So can you talk about that part of the job? You you kind of did, but I want to know if if the schools have the support that they need, the resources that they need in order to support the whole child and the family.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Um, I feel that we have been very lucky to connect with some great um groups and organizations that have helped support our families. Um things that, you know, when I came into this position, I had 26 years experience that I had never heard of in 26 years. And I had students that needed those at that time. Um, but again, the beauty of our program and the small um approach and the just the knowledge of people working with our program that are like, hey, what about this resource? What about this organization? We have been able to connect families. Um it's interesting when you said like you serve, you know, have to serve as a case manager. Um, that was one piece I got a lot on a staff survey I did at the end of the year just about the program was it would be so nice to have someone, like a position that managed just those family connections and relationships. And, you know, uh, we're gonna connect you with this resource. I'm gonna take you and we're gonna go meet with them and I'm gonna support you through that. And I'm the one, I'm I'm keeping track to make sure have we followed up, have we can have we made these connections? What does this person still need? You know, where are those gaps that we're missing? Um, so that's something that I, you know, would love to see grow, um, you know, and have something like that to be in place to support our staff and our students because it is, it's it's a it's hard work and it's hard. You know that as a as a parent and as an educator, you know, you're carrying around all these children that are, you know, we consider ours. Like that's a motto of our school. Every student is our student, it belongs to everyone, not just a homeroom, not just one teacher. Um, you know, we we carry them around and we want all the best for them and their family. And we want them to be able to get that support they need to make that next step. And I um I would just say when you when you talk about the mental health side of things and that struggle, I think that is the most difficult one that our staff faces. You know, a lot of times we can we can make those academic accommodations, we can make those behavioral accommodations, but when you have a student who may be in a uh in a very true deep depression or a very traumatic event or acting out and you don't know what to do next or what's the right, what's the right next thing to do or the right thing to say in that moment, um, that's hard.

Mental Health Gaps And Real Supports

SPEAKER_01 20:50

And so bringing in that mental health support um is, you know, is that next level layer that um is critical, I think, to our program and any program like ours.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

It's really incredible that your district even thinks about that and that you're trying to help the student to get to the point where they can be able to learn and be successful because when all that stuff is going on, let's face it, I mean, they're having a difficult time learning.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yep. They're in fight, you know, fight, flight or freeze um the stage at that point. And so there is no learning, there is nothing getting to that brain at that time. Um so we have to figure out how it is to support and looking ahead, we are we are in a way blessed. Um, you know, our our district is is in a position where we are have made some cuts this year. And, you know, as a lot of public schools are struggling with finances, um, you know, we are taking a position that we had, sadly, that was wonderful for the entire district and still will serve layers of that. But our um coordinator for student mental health and wellbeing um Is actually going to be working here in lieu of a school counselor next year and be with us all year. Um as a like she's a licensed social worker. Um and then my you know uh behavior um BCBA is gonna work with her. I just see like this could be a dynamic time for some huge opportunities because that's that's I think where we as educators sometimes feel like we aren't enough or we are afraid we're not doing it the quote right way. I don't know that there is a right way, but we just we're we're helpers and we want to make sure we're we're getting all the students what they need.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, it's just crazy how schools have had to adapt to the kids' needs. Because I remember when I was in school or when you were in school, you know, I mean, I don't know. I don't remember these types of services and caring, and I'm sure the teachers did care, but I just don't remember them ever being this involved.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

No, it was I I just feel it was so it was so different. And uh I don't know if it was a good different, a bad different, or an indifferent different, but um it was different, and now um, you know, we're we're seeing these kids as they are, and you know, I always like we're we're thinking outside of the box here, we're finding what works versus saying, yeah, here's what you need to do to work inside this box.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Another thing that's changed is over the last 30 years, I would say our understanding of children has evolved tremendously, so especially when it comes to autism and ADHD and anxiety and other learning and developmental differences. How has this affected schools and how educators have had to adapt to better meet the needs of children who have differences so they they can be successful?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Um, I think you you're you're learning about all those things. You're learning about your students, you're learning, you know, um beyond, okay, well, they may have that diagnosis. What does that diagnosis mean? What does that look like for a student in third grade versus eighth grade versus tenth grade? You know, just really um figuring out what that looks like and the best way to support it. Because, you know, I this is where I hate that word disability, because to me it's not a disability. To me, it is who they are. And it's part of that, it's not anything that is within a control piece. It is, it is who makes them that child or that person and makes them beautiful. And so instead of trying to change that, we should celebrate that and build the the skills that help that child, that person, that adult be successful, whatever it is they want to do. We have to look at that approach versus again, no, you have to change that about yourself to fit here. It should not be that way.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Right. That's why I use the word differences because I don't like the word disability either. And honestly, I mean they're just kids. They're just kids. Yeah, and everybody has something. So that's what we always say.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yes. Yeah. Here I always say, remember, we all have a reason. We're at Grizzly Academy. You know, we're all here for a reason. It's our personal reason, it's our, it's us, um, you know, so that's a good reminder for um all of us here, too.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

We also hear a lot about schools with staffing shortages. And you just mentioned about the finances, and how has that affected schools and the support that children

Funding Staffing And Program Sustainability

SPEAKER_00 25:45

receive?

unknown 25:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Well, I think ironically, um, Grizzly Academy truly came out, not the the purpose behind it was not a financial piece, but it actually was a financial savings to our district. Because when we are uh, you know, you're in that large environment and you have needs that and maybe aren't able to be served there. A lot of times then we say, okay, what's that alternate placement? What is that outside placement that a student needs to be in? Um placements are come with a hefty price tag, right? Those are what we call separate private schools. Um, and so those aspects of paying for our students to be placed out of district, we're like, wait, if we serve them here, we are serving them within district again with our staff. And so um, you know, we are bringing that income back into the district, which is what supports Grizzly Academy and even beyond helps support the district, because not all those funds, you know, come right here. They they go to the general fund of our our district and where those needs are. Um, but staffing, you know, it even if we don't have a sub, for example, like in that is, I would say it happens sometimes not as I thought it would be more frequent here than when I was in the traditional building. And I will actually tell you, we have um some amazing subs that this is their favorite place to be, and they're here almost every day, and it's awesome. But when we don't, we have such a knowledgeable team that jumps in and helps one another and you know is creative and okay, how do we make this look today? Um, so that is is something I think we've seen an impact on. Um, but really just tuning into um how to support students in that fiscally responsible way, but nurturing caring in your district way is I think a beautiful balance. Again, I always want to make that asterisk with the right staff. Because I do think, you know, I'm I'm biased, I know, but I think Wadsworth is a pretty amazing place with a pretty dynamic staff um district-wide. And so we have so many of those people within our district that care. And then we have another layer that are like, give me this, put me in this, let me have this challenge, let me, you know, work through this with kids and support them. And and I don't know that that is everywhere, Ann. And that that is something that always worries me when I brag about Grizzly Academy because people are like, oh, we want that in our district. And I and I just I worry, I don't want it to become another cookie cutter program that then flops because it's not staffed, not with the right numbers of people, it's not staffed with the right hearts of people. That's what I'll that's I guess how I'll classify it.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I think the teachers go into it um, you know, with their heart. They want to give to the kids. That's but then I think something happens along the line. And I I don't know if it's because of all teaching to a test and all these other things, and they just sometimes teachers just lose that heart along the way. So I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah, I don't I would say I don't know that, you know, I and again, I I like to live in Pollyanna world, and and so I see, you know, I believe every teacher cares and loves and has that heart. But I think sometimes the demands of the world that we work in as educators and the expectations that are put upon us um beyond a testing piece, you know, just all the needs, um, it it just becomes a lot. And then you throw in the dynamic where so many of us have our own families and, you know, we all have challenges there as well, you know, every nobody ever knows anyone's true story that's happening outside, right? So I I believe it is it is there and is that balance. And and I'll be honest, I worry about my staff in that. I I say this is hard work. We are working so hard every day. Um, it is like nonstop, you know. I I worry about like how long can someone truly sustain this level of in it, in it-ness, I guess, for the better term, um, and truly, and truly still, you know, be able to be okay on their outside of school self too.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

I know when I was the director at the Bettered

Protecting Staff In Hard Work

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Woman Shelter Rape Crisis Center, one of the things that we did was make sure we checked in with each other. That's what we had to do. I mean, when you are going through so much in a day, even just a process. I mean, you don't even really want to talk sometimes at the end of the day. You're just like, okay, leave me alone. I just need to process this day. Um, but then when you count can come and circle back around, it's like, okay, I mean, we need to check in with each other and make sure we're okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yes, absolutely. And I will say that our team does an amazing job of that. Um, and and even knowing in those moments, we we talk a lot about when you have to tap out, you know, when and I heard, you know, I heard a uh a quote the other day or a piece that was talking about like how um, you know, when when we get caught up in our emotions, then we start to lose our power and our ability. And so like the power to know our own triggers and have a plan, that's where I feel like we've been that's my next step for my staff. So if any of them are listening, they're gonna know what we're gonna be working on next year. But you know, what is that plan you have when, you know, for me, probably one of my biggest triggers is when kids are mean to other kids. Like I struggle with that. It's probably part of my own trauma. Um, but there are some elements there that I know I'm gonna have to either take some big deep breaths before I go into that conversation, or I'm gonna have to say to someone else, you take over this conversation because I know that I'm not emotionally regulated myself yet to have that, because I I don't like anyone being unkind to anyone else. Um, so really that that piece of knowing what happens to us to be able to help our students and help one another, um, and knowing that about each other. We have some really powerful conversations as a staff, like, hey, I know um, you know, that that this. So if I see that happening around a staff member, then hey, I may be jumping in even before something happens. Um, or uh just how to talk to one another, how to respond in those moments of crisis. I I'm a hugger and I I want to hug it out, like that helps me regulate. If someone will give me a hug, that helps me regulate. I know there are members of my staff that the worst thing I could do was give them a hug, you know. So it is knowing one another and the supports and the different levels. And I've learned that about kids over time too. I used to think as an early principal, like, oh, every kid loves a hug and you know, wants to be at their elementary principals. No, I I, you know, I've learned that. Um, and so it's always like, hey, what do you want? Hug, high five, handshake, word of praise, you know, what is that piece that that is your you know, comfort for you?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

So one of the other things that we're also facing or fighting, I guess you could say, is invisible bullies. I mean, many times we don't even know or how to fight or advocate for our child. I think parents and educators actually we carry so much guilt. And one thing I've learned is that we need to be louder than the bullies, louder than their negative self-talk and their invisible differences, and allow them to have a safe place to be who they are without judgment.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

That goes back to that, you know, feeling safe and having a connected person, you know, to be that. And sometimes it has to be themselves too. They have to believe in themselves first.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah,

Co-Regulation And The Three Rs

SPEAKER_00 33:45

and what what you talked about, I really liked earlier about the regulation. We do need to do this with the child. I mean, that is so important just to tell kids, hey, you need to self-regulate. But your program uses a lot of co-regulation. So if you can explain exactly what that is, because I think many parents are teach are trying to teach regulation without realizing that children often need someone to help them and go beside them to help them first.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Absolutely. You know, that um is something we talk a lot about. And and um within our program, students do not have to be on an individualized education plan or IEP, um, but but many are. Um, and you know, that is one of the things that that makes me get my like the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, is when someone started talking about we need a goal for self-regulation. Okay, well, maybe for our later kids down the road. But when I'm talking about my my K, you know, K4 for sure, and a lot of times K six, just depending on those needs, like that co-regulation is critical. Um, we I said we always learn a lot between um our years and our program, again, a benefit of my staff is we always want to learn more. And one of the things after our first year, we went to a training over the summer, a two-day training. And in that, we learned about the three Rs. And this is something I like to preach to families and other staffs that talk to us and remind our staff, our own staff and myself of this is you know, those three Rs. So that first piece is regulation. And that doesn't mean self-regulation doesn't mean, but when someone is in that sense of crisis, right? There's no way to talk them through that. The worst thing to say to someone is it'll be okay, or calm down, or you know, those kinds you got to let them live that moment. And that's where we have to find that safe place for that child um to live that moment that still preserves their dignity and their great and gives them grace to have that because we all have moments. So that first R is it's getting through that, get that to that regulated state. So regulate and then um relate is that second one, which comes again into that safe and secure relationship. And and that the our staff also knows like that might not be me. I might not be the right person to be in that that R state with the student. They may need their go-to person, or they may, you know, see me in a different light and they need me nowhere near that situation. So we also have to have those tough conversations sometimes, but that relate pieces next. So building that relationship back up, letting them know you're okay, even though you had this moment, it doesn't define you. You're okay. Like we had that. And then once we've built that up, then we bring in that last R, and that's that reason part. So that is where we're doing that learning and that teaching. And all of those pieces come well after the actual moment. But if you think in like that traditional environment, we're talking so often at students when they're in that crisis. Um, because you're you're you've got, you know, 400 other students in the building or 20 other students in that classroom, um, we don't always have time to process those three Rs. And that is um that's a piece we have to get back to. Actually, one of my staff wrote that on their survey, said, you know, we need to get back to the basics of the three Rs and continue to remember that and and really practice that in all that we do. Um, so in that and with that co-regulation part in the beginning, sometimes we can be in that moment with the student. Sometimes they need someone to be there and they'll tell us, like, I need a hug during that time, or I need, you know, just pressure on my body. I need to play catch with a ball, you know, some like in that regulated, that doesn't mean you're just like hands off and doing nothing. You're you're knowing that child and you're figuring out that way to kind of get them back to that safe place in their brain, get them back to that neutral state and not in their um fight, flight, or fear um, you know, response brain. So that I would say is a piece. And and parents, you just, you know, it does, and it also doesn't mean that you let those things happen without consequences or without boundaries. You know, we have to establish there are boundaries when this is happening that can and cannot happen. Um, and I would say that that's something I I'll just say, I I had to learn that the hard way. I probably have not been that great in the beginning of those clear boundaries and clear consequences in the beginning because I I thought that wasn't necessarily the right approach. And then I've learned a lot more. Um, and and I see like that is what they need is that consistency piece too, with it. So knowing what's going to be the next step.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

When they feel safe, they can be who they are too. I mean, I think that that's really important. And and they know that you're gonna hold them up when they need held up, you know, they can

Behavior As Communication In Schools

SPEAKER_00 38:50

fall back and know that you're gonna catch them. And behavior is communication. And so I was gonna ask you to talk about that because I think it changes how people view difficult behavior.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

That that I think is the the million-dollar question in any classroom and in any home, any family is what is the need that is being communicated through this? And sometimes it's really easy to see, and sometimes it takes a lot of digging and a lot of layers and a lot of supports. Um, so that's where we really rely a lot on our um behavior specialists to come in and do sometimes it's just some observations and hey, let's try this. Sometimes it might be a complete um, you know, functional behavior assessment and that could lead into a behavior intervention plan, could just lead into some ports. But we have that person on staff every day, all day. And that makes a huge difference because that piece is there. Um, she's there to support us and teach us more and say, hey, did you ever think about it like this? But I know when I was in the classroom, when I was in the you know, principalship in the you know, traditional setting, sometimes you you don't have, I shouldn't say we don't have the time to look at that. Sometimes that time is not spent looking at that. And it's more of those quick responses or the calm down, get it together, you know, those pieces. Um, and we never really understand why the child may have those behaviors or um what they're seeking through those.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

They're very complex, aren't they? It's very hard to decipher and dissect and figure out exactly where the root is. Um, but you know, when when educators care, like we said, it can help to break down those behaviors. It really does take a team, and the parents um

Building Family Trust And Connection

SPEAKER_00 40:50

really need to work with the schools. I think that that is so important. Educators, and that's why I don't understand sometimes why levies do fail and things like that, because if if we don't, if the schools aren't successful, hello, I mean the rest of the area is not going to be either, and they need to be supported. How can parents better support educators uh and help our kids be able to be their best on the way to school, you know, so you can teach them.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Um, you know what? It's interesting that you say that, and because I I saw the a cute clip on the end of the news this um, I don't ever like watch the news, but it was on in the background and I saw something related to schools, so it drew my attention. And it was this group out of, I believe, Louisville, Kentucky. And it was this this group of moms that once a month they just get as as many moms who want to come in, and they're outside the school, like cheering when the kids get off the buses and with these positive and whatever. And they and they talk about like how starting your day is so important. But I know as a mom, there were a lot of days when we didn't start off so well because it's the running out of the car, right? And grab your book bag, get your lunch, get this, you know, that chaos. Um, you know, that I would say is is normal. I don't want uh parents or family members or actually at our school, we don't even use the word parents. We often say you're grown-ups because so many students have different, you know, home backgrounds. But yeah, so you know, life happens and we know that. And that's where I think we have a beautiful relationship with our families. And um, you know, I think if if every school had this, every teacher and and family that, hey, we're we're real, we're real humans. Like we're gonna make mistakes sometimes, as long as they're not like purposeful and you know, malicious intent mistakes, which would not be allowable, you know, we're gonna make mistakes and and so our family, like there's gonna be pieces we have to work together to find the best way to support the student. Um, and so that is that that communication piece, I think is the key. And being um vulnerable, that's what I think is important for schools and families to have is that ability to be vulnerable um in a safe place. And that kind of uh takes me a little bit back to um that Jessica Sinarski's work I talked about. She talked about tapping into curiosity with compassion rather than judgment. I was that stood out to me because that is um that's what our students need. Um and so so learning that piece to look at it with not a like, why are they doing that? Like, huh? What I wonder what the need is right now. Like what do they need in that moment? Exactly. Um and and so those are powerful pieces, I think, that we have continued to learn. Um, and we try to share those with our families, um, you know, find those. Best ways. I also believe that the beauty of a family school partnership, Anne, is being there and being able to come in. You know, um, we don't have necessarily a lot of volunteer opportunities during the day, just the way our our structure of our day is. But we try to have family events throughout the year and ways to get our families in during the school day, even see a picture of what it really looks like, like what's happening during the day, what what are you know, celebrating you? Um, and then also like after school events, you know, we will have like family game night, we had a bingo night, we had a literacy night, you know, things like that that um teach our families something, but also bring them into the schools because a lot of the time they end up at Grizzly Grizzly Academy through not always the most positive course. And so we want our families to know we're here, we see you, we support you, we welcome you, we want you to be part of this team. Um, and and that has been really powerful, I think, for us.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

You also check in with them during the summertime, have a picnic, and actually it's like you don't go three whole months without hearing from them. You make sure that you connect.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah. Yeah. So we do try to do that. Tonight we have um just like like a playground and popsicles. And in the past summers, that's kind of all we have done. Um, and this year I was like, we we need to change it up a little bit. And I was especially thinking about our new students, our new families, and our especially our kindergartners that are coming in for the first time. Um, I wanted to get them into the building. I wanted them to kind of experience some of those parts of the day. So this year we're trying for the first time a dinner and game night. So bring them in so they can actually eat in a cafeteria with the noise, with the time crunch a little bit, um, and have a game and just see see the school. And then um, yeah, you mentioned the picnic, you know, at the in August before school, we're gonna have a picnic on our front lawn and you know, just because we part of our motto too is that we're a family growing together and we always look at ourselves as the Grizzly Academy family. And and once you're part of our family, you are forever a part of our family. Like even our students that may graduate and and return to the traditional environment or graduate and move on to life. We had two 12th graders graduate this year, which just was the most special thing ever. Um, you know, we want

Phones Social Media And Lost Presence

SPEAKER_01 46:30

them to always know that that we're here and they are part of us and will forever be part of us.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

We're gonna wrap soon, but I wanted to ask you a few more questions. Uh, what keeps you up at night?

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Oh goodness. Everything. Um I'm gonna get like emotional um on this one. Just uh just wanting to figure out the way to get to um our hardest uh situations so our our students and our families truly know that we're we're doing what we're doing because we care and we want them to be successful and we truly do love every single one of them. Um and so that if if there's just a a a piece there, um sometimes it's I just want to scoop up that kiddo and take them home with me. Um and you know, let them just have, you know, whatever it is like, have an escape from um, you know, the traumas of their early life experiences that maybe they're no longer part of, but those traumas are with them and will always be there. And just how to be enough, how to be enough for my staff and my kids and um our kids, not my kids, our our kids as a as a family um at GA and just am I doing a good job? Am I doing it, do they really know I love them? I guess those would be probably those those big pieces um that keep me up. What do I need to know more about?

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah. What are the moments that remind you that this work matters?

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Um, when I hear that a really hard situation turned into beautiful growth. Um when I saw our students walk across the stage of our entire district graduation um and receive their diploma. When I asked a student, a high school student this year, you know, do you do you think you would have made it through without a Grizzly Academy or, you know, the program that he had been in before? And he looked at me and he said, Absolutely not. This is this is this is what is needed. Um when you just see that that smile of a student you know maybe never smiled in school before. Uh and when you can have that really hard conversation or situation happen and still come back together the next day, the next week, or whatever, and know you're on the same team and you um you you are there for the child. Um, and that child knows that you know they they're giving me those boundaries because they love me, not because they're mad at me or want me to be in trouble, right? They're they're they're supporting me through that. Um and just seeing my staff work every day and love the kids and and shine. Um it really is a magical place to be.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

It really is. So even on your hardest day, you have a lot of hope.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

I do. I always have a lot of hope. Sometimes a lot of frustration comes with that or sadness or you know, all the other emotions. But uh, you know, again, that piece of um I keep referencing the podcast that I listen to, but in that was, you know, we have to normalize emotions and we have to let, and that's a piece, even back to your question about, you know, that co-regulation. Like kids need to know every emotion is okay. It's how we respond to it. But um, in this is normalizing those emotions and knowing that we can't have the good emotions without the hard emotions either. You know, we need all of those. Um, so yes, I always have hope and I always have love. Um, and I always have belief in my heart for our students and our program.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

And the kids, I'm sure, feel that because I was gonna ask you, what do children need most from the adults in their lives? And it might just be that we believe in them. I'm not sure, but what what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Um I would say that they um that they see them, that they really see them, that you know, we put down the phones, we put down the tablets, we we see them, we hear them, we're we're in that moment with them. Um, because I think when we're doing that, they know we believe in them and they know we love them.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

You know, that's so important. I think I mean as much communication as we have with each other and we feel closer, I guess, because we're always a text away. We've lost so much presence.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

I'm guilty of it. You know, I uh there are times I'm like, oh my gosh, I am ignoring my own child because I'm looking at my phone, you know, and then my girls are older now, but like still knowing like they need me. I need to be, I need to be there. Um, and and I always say if that's one thing I could change about the world, it would be to get rid of like um the devices in our hands all the time. Like just we we we don't need them to survive. That's my that's my just well, we did it before we made it without, right? I know, I know, which my girls can't believe that I went all through college and drove around and went on trips without a cell phone. Like, what if something happened? So, you know, but I I just I want that connection back. And even if it, you know, even if you can say, you know, and I and I often though the things that I've learned in this role, and um, I wish I would have learned as I was starting to parent my own children because I look back and I think, um, you know, how how I could have done things differently. Not that I didn't wrong or anyone does them wrong, but just how I could have made things better. Um, and one of those things would be that even if I can't get rid of the devices, there there would be a dedicated time of day that though that they're gone, that they're done, that they're not accessible by any of us, you know, that those are somewhere else from I don't know, five to eight every night, right? When we actually have um that truly focused family time conversation, even even not even just family time. You think about like I was always a part of sports, and I think about my teammates and the you know fun we would have on the bus to and from games, right? Or before after, or you know, at at you know, football games, sleepover, whatever it was. There were not that we were in those moments, and that that presence I think is what we we have lost. And I I think our kids crave it. They I don't even know that they could identify it, what they're craving, but I feel that humans in general crave that presence from those around them.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

I think that a lot of it does that it could be part of the root of uh the mental health problems that we are having with the younger generations because they're just like this, and but yet they feel lonely. They and they're really not able to express how they feel oftentimes. And I I just yeah, I just keep thinking, put your phone down.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

And also because when they're in that, they're they're also seeing what they think they should be, and it's not that's not what they should be, like that's not um you know, reality, or that we all have to be the same way or look the same way, or you know, like this, whatever. Like we're all individuals and different, and we bring those, and um, you know, that that kindness and love and acceptance of one another, I think would be even bigger if we didn't have that device that kind of told us what we had to be like when we're engaged with it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yeah, it's that invisible that I talked about earlier, you know, and us adults, we can't really see a lot of things that's happening on those phones with social media and everything. And they there's no way anybody could measure up to all of that and the bullies and and the access to being bullied is so much worse when they have the devices. And I had somebody on a podcast once say to me, Would you invite uh you know let's say like a thousand people into your child's bedroom? Well, that's what you're doing every single night. You let your child have the phone in their room. And I'm just like, wow, that's pretty profound.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah, and and even and when you say invisible bullies, like I I see that side too, but I think about um that uh maybe instead of invisible bully, I think about that internal bully and that negative stuff that we harbor because of what we think we should be or what we see we should be um, you know, portrayed in social media or in, you know, whatever it is, you know, any in just every day in life. Um, like so that's where I I just that normalizing talking about our emotions and talking about those feelings is is really important to me. And so that's something we really try to focus on at Grizzly Academy. And um, you know, we can always get better. We we always push um to be the best we can for kids. But I um I'm just so proud. I'm so proud of our our program, our school district, our our families that support us um and show up every day and um love us and love our kids.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Last question. Yeah,

Hope Graduation And Life Skills

SPEAKER_00 56:30

uh you talk about and Grizzly Academy is all about preparing students, not just for school, but for life. I mean, that's what you're doing. What are the most important qualities that children need to become successful adults with everything that's coming at them right now?

SPEAKER_01 56:48

The ability to be able to talk about how they're feeling in those moments, to be able to have the space to say, hey, I need more time to process that, or not sure I understood that. Could you say that again or say that in a different way? Um which I think that that piece coupled with communication and knowing, knowing themselves. And like I said earlier, knowing your own triggers, knowing your highs and lows, I like to call it, right? Or or glows and grows, however you want to say it, knowing that about yourself to be okay with that, and then be able to communicate those pieces and always have an open mind that you can always learn something new. You don't know everything, and you should try to learn something new every day. And leave, I think if they also know, like they they should try. Um, I I push our kids a little bit to embrace this motto is just try to leave the place you were a little better than you found it, whether that is from what you've shared um or what you've done in that, you know, environment. Um, I even tease them when I'm like, pick that weed, it will look better. Like it immediately looks better, you know. Um, whatever that is, just just strive to make it better.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

Well, Aaron, I really thank you for being here. Grizzly Academy is proving that when we stop asking children to fit into a system and instead build a system around the needs of the child, lives can truly be changed. This is so much more than a school. It really is a model program, a model organization, and a beautiful reminder of what is possible when adults choose to put relationships before academics and see the child before the behavior. The staff at Grizzly Academy are incredible role models for today's youth because they are teaching something far greater than math, reading, or test scores. They are teaching children that they belong, that they matter, and that they are capable of success. One thing I have learned as a parent is that every behavior tells a story. Sometimes our children aren't giving us a hard time, they're having a hard time. What I love about Grizzly Academy is that it recognizes something many families have known for years, that children thrive when they feel safe, they thrive when they feel seen, and they thrive when they feel understood. And perhaps most importantly, they thrive when the adults in their lives stop asking, what's wrong with you? And ask, How can I help? Because that's where healing begins. That's where growth begins and where hope begins. So thank you, Erin, for sharing your insights with us today for the incredible work that you and your team are doing every single day for children and families. And thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Thank you for having me, and thank you for being a champion for students and families. And you um do a lot of amazing work, and uh I'm just grateful for you and the voice that you share.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

I appreciate that. It's uh yeah, it's exhausting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

It is, but it's good exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

It is when my head hits the pillow, and I'm sure yours as well, even though that you really are exhausted, um, you sleep well knowing that you did your best for the people in your life. Yep. And as usual, as we always say on this podcast, there is purpose in the pain and there is hope in the journey. And we will see you next time.