He Thought He Was Getting a Day Off from School: Kidnapped at Six: Tim Smith's Journey from Trauma to Healing

Childhood, Trauma, And Fault Lines

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Ann. Childhood is not the same for everyone. Childhood can hurt. And we are all children once. I mean, we are, but childhood is not an equal experience for everyone. For some, it's a place of safety and belonging. For others, it's where fear, shame, and survival first take root. Those early experiences quietly shape how we see ourselves, how we trust, how we love, and how we move through the world. Even as adults. Childhood can be a window to our dreams. But when trauma enters the picture, it often becomes the lens through which life is experienced long after childhood has ended. Childhood influences relationships, confidence, identity, and even the stories that we tell ourselves about our own worth. Our guest today, Tim Smith, has written a very honest, brave memoir. His book is called Fault Line. Still Standing, and I love the still standing part. As I read your story, Tim, I realized a fault isn't just where the earth breaks. It's the moment that changes a life forever. And everything fractures. When you realize that you'll never be that same person again. And I think every one of us has a fault line to some degree. You know, it's it's a place where there's loss or death or trauma or abuse or a rejection. And the question after is how do I move forward from here? So what I appreciate most about your memoir is that while you never minimize what happened, you also refuse to let it have the last word. In your book, you write, the book exists because I refused to let silence win. That sentence says so much about who you are. Thank you for being here and telling your courageous story.

The Day Tim Was Taken

SPEAKER_00 2:40

So welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Ann.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Thank you, Anne. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I would love to start with the title because when I reached the part in the book where you talk about fault line and what it was in your life, you know, I've spent years trying to describe those moments in life where everything changes, the moments where life divides the before and the after. And when you think about that fault line in your life, that six-year-old little boy, you know, you thought that it was just going to be a normal, fun day. Mom was calling you off of school, kiss your dad goodbye. But something in you, even at six years old, knew that something wasn't right. Tell us about that day.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yeah. It was a hard day. Um, and it really is. I do consider that sort of the fault line for every uh event, for every, you know, for every fracture, for every trauma, for everything that sort of has followed, you know, from that point. Um, my mom and dad had uh they got married very early, like a lot of people did, right? And uh, you know, it's just that time. Um, they had divorced uh when I was four, and then they'd lived together for about a year. And um my dad was uh in jail in Mariana. Um he had been in and out of jail for um DUIs and you know, pot possession, stuff like that. He wasn't a bad guy, he just liked his booze and his pot, you know. Um, and so my mom had come to wake me up one morning, and I don't really remember her ever really waking me up for school or walking me to school or making breakfast or anything like that, right? And um, so you know, she'd woke me up and she was like, hey, let's um uh let's walk to school, go kiss your dad goodbye. And um, I remember how he smelled, um, he smelled like um stale beer and cigarettes and and sweat. You know, he just smelled yeah, kind of dirty, like he had been out all night, which he probably had been, truthfully. Um, and so we're we're walking to the school, you know, and um she says, How would it be if we didn't go to school today? And uh, you know, I'm a six-year-old boy. I'm excited. Yes, no school. That sounds great. Let's do it. Right. Um, and still there was something in like I remember like my little mind that I was like, this doesn't this isn't normal for her, but I you know, I'm gonna go along with it. It's my mom, I I trust her. Um and I saw over in the corner my who was going to be my stepdad uh drove like this 1974 gold Chevy Nova, you know, the big uh the big engine blower on the front and the big wheels in the back. And um, I saw it parked like in this triangle parking lot over in uh at this gas station. And it was like a punch in the gut. Like I just immediately seized up, like I knew something was not right. Um, and uh she basically kind of forced me in the car with him. Um, and I immediately am, you know, really fighting with everything that a six-year-old boy has, right? Because she uh was taking me from my dad, she was taking me for my life, and was taking me with really a stranger. You know, I'd met him a couple of times when my dad was in jail, but he was just uh it was just another man in her life. It wasn't anything um right, I didn't hold much to him, right? And so they put me in the car and they took off um across the county line, and um I was inconsolable in the backseat, just squalling and writhing, you know, just trying to get out of the car. And um I remember my stepdad saying, you know, if he doesn't be quiet, I'm gonna put him out on the side of the road. And you know, my mom kind of tried to defend it. And a few years later, they would talk about the event and like um they would joke about it, like they would laugh about it, like it was something funny, you know. And so immediately they just sort of diminished what the event was and uh certainly diminished my pain and diminished the the trauma, you know, that went around that.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Right, right. Yeah, they did that in everything in your life.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah. They were not good, uh they were not good parents, they were not good people, they just weren't. I don't know if they didn't have the capacity or the willingness, or once the new of the baby worn off, you know, like I I uh I don't know. I don't know. I've tried to look back and sort of sometimes put myself in their place, or sometimes just sort of analyze whatever was going on, right? And you know, I can I can't absolve them of their sins, but knowing, trying to understand them better helps tend to my wounds, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, I mean, I guess that you know, we all hurt, and some people when we hurt, yeah, we hurt others, and you know, unfortunately that can happen, but we don't want to own and excuse what they do for sure, because I often say, Well, I was abused and I don't do those things. So, you know, I you know, I I don't know what makes people continue the cycle and some end the cycle. But you know, uh children don't have uh language like adults do. And you were in a situation where you didn't understand the the manipulation and uh what was going on there, I mean, between custody or abandonment and addiction, and they simply know, you know, kids simply know when something is off and when people that they kind of trusted or they were trying to trust all of a sudden are no longer safe, and you know that they're no longer safe. So looking back, what was that six-year-old taking in at that moment? Could you feel that, hey, you knew it was off, but was there fear? Were you like, I mean, you were crying. What was going on inside of you?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

If I'm being honest, I do not remember. Um, a lot of my memories from childhood are um they're just not there, they're just trauma-inhibited. Um, they're and I thought that was sort of normal that you would sort of have these great big gaps in your memory. Um, turns out that's not normal. Um and uh I remember being scared. I remember wanting to be back with my dad. I remember having this like longing tugging at me to be back in my old life that I had, you know. I went nonverbal. Um, I didn't speak for a year. Um, I don't know if it was uh a silent treatment, I don't know if that was my only weapon I had. I don't know if I was so scared and so panicked and so unable to vocalize what had happened that I just couldn't find the words. I just did not speak. There was um it felt like no one was listening and no one cared, so why would I why would I speak? You know, and then you know, even when I did, you know, they you know they joked about the kidnapping, they minimized it, you know. And so I learned early that there was no point in expressing my feelings or telling one how I felt because no one cared.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Did you try to speak? You know, I had selective mutism because of trauma as a kid, and I I was like silenced. I mean, no matter how much even I remember being in a room and everybody's talking and enjoying or laughing, and I'm just like in silence. You know, I couldn't break from it no matter how hard I could have even tried. So, did you want to say things, but they just wouldn't come out?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I think I was just so disassociated from the whole event from my life as a childhood that I think I spent um a lot of time in my head making up places for me to go that were safe, um, creating safe worlds, which sort of led to like my my drawing and my creativity, which sort of later turned into photography and uh drone work and now like this, you know, AI account, right? And so it all sort of turned into places for me to go and hide out in places that were safe for me because the real world was not safe for me.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yeah, I mean everything familiar had disappeared in a minute. Yeah. Your dad, your home, your routines, your sense of safety. So when something like that happens to a child, what does it teach you about the world?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Um, it taught me very early, and it still sort of um stays with me today. You know, I'm uh I'm in my mid-50s, and there are some of those things that still stick with me, that still guide my interactions to this day. Um, and a lot of those things, you know, that I learned early is that the people that are supposed to protect you and love you can destroy you. Um period. Um, everyone will betray you. Uh, there is no safe place. Uh, the only safety is the safety that you create for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

You know, it's a scary place to be when the people that are supposed to be taking care of you are the ones that are hurting you, and you can't do or say anything about it. And people really on the outside wouldn't believe you anyway, you know. I mean, it that's crazy in itself as well. Talk about that survival in you even at six years old.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

It is a little, I don't know why, right? Like, I don't know why. Like, what is uh

When Memory Blanks And Words Stop

SPEAKER_01 12:30

what was the driving me, even as like a little boy, right? To survive, to stick it out, to tough it out. Um, I, for whatever reason, have always been defiantly hopeful, annoyingly hopeful, you know, just knowing like it's gotta be better than this. There must be something better on the horizon. There must be something better around the corner. And I think it was that sort of hope and that belief and that, you know, maybe we'll call it faith that things were gonna get better. Um that was one of the things that sort of kept me, uh kept me going. I and I don't know why I can't explain it. Uh there's no there's no logic to it. There's no reason that I should have been hopeful. Uh there's no reason I should have believed that anything was going to get better. Um, there was no reason that I should think that I would have a uh a great life and be married and have a house full of dogs and you know have someone that loves me. You know, I never uh I never imagined that for myself because as a little boy, uh no one loved me, no one cared for me. I was um discarded and abandoned and was used as uh a tool a lot of the time between uh my mom and my dad and even my stepdad.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yeah. It's it's hard to let people in when you've had so much hurt. It really is amazing that you were able to, you know, get to the point that you could allow people in. One thing that I did notice about in your book is that no one ever really explained anything to you, too. And that is a whole different level of yeah, I mean, things just happened. You were taken, you were now living, you know, you were taken from your dad, but now who here's your new dad? And adults made decisions. Adults would fight, there would be addiction, people would just disappear. And nobody sat down with you and said a word to you about what was happening. So, how much did that uncertainty affect the way that you understood the world around you or how you saw yourself?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Um, at the time it seemed like everything was uh just chaos, you know, it was just chaos. There was no um, and I understand that like parents, you know, you can't always explain sort of everything to your child, right? Like just the comprehension level, right? But also like, you know, a sentence or two, mommy and daddy are you know doing this, or this is kind of what's happening, or I've decided, you know, this. Um there was no um there was none of that. It was just chaos and uncertainty. Um, and so sort of because of those things, like I now um could sometimes be called a control freak, right? Um, but um I have to have parameters now. Um I have to have safety now. I have to know that things are A, B, and C. I have to know that my routine is my routine is is polished, you know, it's gleaming because um I've got to have structure now. I've got to have all my things. I'm not one for uh surprises. If we want to be spontaneous, we need to plan it, you know, like um and so just all of that chaos and all of that nonsense early childhood. I didn't like it. And so I know the things that I do like, right? And it's it's structure and it's safety and it's routine. Um, and so those are things that are very important to me, and I've worked very hard to sort of build those from that rubble of childhood.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I'm glad that you have found somebody who loves you for in spite of, or however you want to say it, or allow you to be who you need to be and want to be. I mean, I think that that's amazing that you did find that. Um I want to start back though when I think and I hope maybe when you started finding your voice, and I'm not sure, but I loved the little story about the artwork in elementary school, where, you know, I mean, I wanted to like say something to the art teacher, you know. I mean, really, I mean, all these other people, kids, you know, they're drawing like little houses and smiling families, and you couldn't relate to any of that. Of course, you couldn't relate to any of that. And how do you draw what was going on with you? But you found a way to put your art down on paper, and your teacher was like, Well, no, I mean, that's not art. I mean, how can you say that something isn't art? It's what came out of you. It's it was beautiful, and you did get second place. So, you know, did that plant a seed that maybe your perspective mattered?

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Um, I think that it did. And at the time I was in what was called retarded classes. Um, I know we don't say that word anymore, um, but that's what they were called at the time. This is the mid-70s, and um, between like my mother kidnapping

Chaos Creates A Need For Control

SPEAKER_01 17:30

me and us moving and her keeping me for my dad, like I didn't go to school for several months. Um, and so to catch me up, I was in those classes. Um, and I remember like it's one of the few like sort of childhood memories I have, and um, it was just a collage of just cut-out paper and colors, and it was very the sort of splattered almost because that was what it felt like for me. Like everything was just a swarm of yeah colors and emotions and stuff, and um, you know, all the other kids were like, you know, little square houses, triangle roofs, smiling mama dad. And like you said, like that was just not my experience. My experience was was chaos and emotions I had no control over and had no way to express. And so it was in the artwork that I found a way to express myself and did for years and years and years. And I remember like she came up and she sort of had like this little kind of like this little condescending smirk on her face, you know, and she was like, What is that? What is this? Isn't I'm not gonna put this in there. I'm not gonna put this in there, and like I remember like I got mad, you know, and um I do this thing, I still do it as an adult. Like when I put my hand on my hip, like you're about to get it, you know. And so I remember like I stood upright and I was like, put it in the show, it's good work, you know, whatever it was, right? Um, and so she she did it, you know, she brought it back and had a second place ribbon on it. And she was almost, and I very quickly learned to hone in on people's feelings, you know, like um survival and reading people's moods came before books and came before learning. Like I had to know how to survive quick as a child. And so I remember her coming back with this almost sort of um, I don't want to say like she was mad that I won second place, but it was almost a uh it was almost a slap in the face to her judgment of what you know my art was supposed to be. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And again, like how do you tell a little boy that's not art? You just smile and take the thing, you know, just smile and take it, tell him he did a good job. That's all you have to do.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah. I mean, and really you just wanted to be seen. And there you were again, you know, you're you're putting your heart out on this paper, and it's your voice. You know, that's your voice. And sure you weren't really able to speak that well, but that was another form of speech for you that somebody was like stifling and saying, no, that's just not good. So be quiet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So I I am so happy for you that you got that second place because I it was a win. You know, absolutely it was something that I really think that you needed at that time in your life. And another kind of really good thing in the midst of everything that was awful was your grandmother. And you know, everything was so unpredictable, but she seemed like home. She seemed steady and safe and warm. So what made her love so different?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

She's gonna make me cry, Ann. Um, I profoundly loved her. There was such a uh comforting, caring energy about her. Um, she just loved. There was no expectation, there was no um, there was no reason why she should. She wanted nothing in return. She just loved me. Um and we were we were poor, but I never felt like when I was with my mother and stepfather, we were poor white trash. When I was with my grandmother, we were just poor. And there's a difference there, you know, there's a difference there. Um and I speak in the book that there um I have no memories of Saturday morning cartoons. I don't remember my mother making breakfast for me. Um, I have no memories of Christmas morning, opening presents, no birthday memories, nothing. But the few that I have are with with my grandmother Ruthie. Um, you know, Saturday morning cartoons, sleeping on her fold out couch, you know, because um I would get to visit my dad uh occasionally and he uh was unstable and unhoused and lived with her, you know.

Finding A Voice Through Art

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Slopped wherever. So when I stayed with him, I basically was staying with her. And you know, I'd sleep uh on that fold-out couch, and sometimes I'd have my toes underneath the blanket. You know, she'd come through and uh, you know, she'd play little tin little piggies, you know, this little piggy's going to market. I'd just squill and holler, you know what I mean? And uh, don't do it, do it, don't do it, do it, you know, just having the best time with her. And um, you know, I still remember that house smelling like um bacon from that cast iron skillet and um her cigarette she kept in her little smock here in the gas stove, and um just like really the happiest, warmest memories um with her. Um, she was always interested in what I wanted to do. Um, yeah, she always made my favorite meals. You know, I only saw them, you know, maybe five or six times a year. And so, of course, they always wanted to, you know, make me happy or you know, try to do things for me because they knew they knew what it was like for me at home. Um, and so I think they were just she, you know, she was just trying to make it um a good experience for me and a little bit of time we had together.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

I she made you feel like you mattered.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Oh yeah. And if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have any, I wouldn't know right from wrong. I wouldn't know any sense of sort of morality because the pack of wolves that were raising me did not teach me that. You know, they taught me that you come first, you get what you want, no one's caring for you, you know. Um, and so it was uh it was a wonderful dichotomy to have her warmth and have her love.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yeah, I'm so glad that you had that kind of love, you know, that's an unconditional love. And I'm wondering, did that help? Because, you know, we're not gonna like paint it pretty. You had a rough life after that, and you um it it was very difficult, and

Grandmother Ruthie And Real Safety

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I think you were your own worst enemy in some ways. And you know, I I'm wondering how much of your grandmother's voice you would hear or her love that would carry you into adult adulthood.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

All the time, every day. Uh anytime I have a uh a question about should I go left or right, I hear my voice telling me to go right. If I have a question about blue or red, I hear her voice telling me blue. Um anytime I uh, you know, then when that little devil gets on your shoulder and starts whispering, there's gonna do that thing. Um I can I always hear her say, now Timmy, you know better. And I always straighten up, you know, like, all right, you know, I'll I'll I'll do um I'll do what you say. And so it's it's very prevalent in my head and in my life to this day. I I think of her as someone that um uh still guides me. Um and I know that may sound a little, you know, a little silly or a little sing-song, but I do um I like to think that her presence still guides me. I still um uh we live in Southern California, so I almost find the weather is gorgeous. Um and so in the mornings I sit out and have coffee and watch the sunrise, and you know, my dogs are with me. And um, that's one of the moments where I really profoundly feel her with me. There were mornings we would sit on her little porch and um she loved nature and she loved watching the sun come up, and it's a way that I sort of get to uh reconnect with her uh, you know, spiritually, and you know, in my mind, it's nice to sort of have that uh that peace with her in the mornings.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

She sounds like she was a wonderful woman. You know, one of the themes that we do talk about sometimes on the podcast is that, you know, just having one person believe in us can change our entire trajectory. And it it doesn't erase the trauma, it doesn't erase everything that you went through, but it did allow you to know that love did exist in a wholesome, healthy way. So, you know, but then you did have a lot of the other people who just uh filled you with shame. So many adults made you feel less just because of who you were, not just because of what happened in your childhood, but because you were also trying to understand your identity in an environment that didn't feel safe. So, what message did you begin to believe about yourself because of the way you were treated?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

It was horrible, Ann. And in some ways, I mean, if I'm being honest, it still is, right? Like that, um those experiences imprinted on my early nervous system. And so those are things that are a part of my body and a part of me and a part of who I am, whether I like it or not. Some days I control it more, some days it controls me more. But the message is, yeah, I mean, I'm just being just honest, you know, I'm not. Um, I I did this other one in someone, you know, I asked, like, how does it feel to be healed? You know, and I'm like, I'm not. It's I think of as being an alcoholic or an adeptic or an addict. You're not. That is still with me, that's still a part of me, right? Um, but the message I got as a child was, you know, be quiet, stay out of the way. No one cares about you. Your emotions, your feelings are not of value, no one wants to hear them. Um, and all of those things made me um weird and awkward as a child, and as even like an early teenager and into early adulthood because I didn't know how to talk to people, um, I didn't know how to interact with people, and then I was so desperate and hungry for love and to please people and have any positive attention, you know, that I would go out of my way to be friends with people or go out of my way to make the people that were abusing me happy, you know, anything to uh be seen in a favorable light. And it hurt, you know, and it felt so lonely. I I'm a visual person, I describe it as being a white dot on a blackboard, you know what I mean? Like all of that on you all the time, and you're just trying to shine your one little pinpoint of light, you know, you're just trying to keep feeling good about yourself, you're trying to feel love and hope, and every voice around you, every person around you, everything around you is telling you the exact opposite. And you you start to believe that nonsense, you know, you start to believe that you're worthless and no one cares about you and you deserve nothing better. And I just thought there had to be better, there had to be better for me. I wanted better for me. I didn't know how to get it, you know, I didn't know what the plan was, but I just I wanted better than what that was that I had at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

You know, one of the things that I really did admire about your book is that you don't write from bitterness, you write from an understanding, even when you speak. I mean, I can just hear the understanding behind everything that you went through, even in the pain. And you did recognize that people who hurt others, like we said earlier in the podcast, that they often create wounds in others. And you know, that didn't excuse the abuse and the the things that they did. But how did you get to the point where you did understand the cycles? You saw the cycles that were going on in your family, and that maybe you would be different.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Might have been a teenager, you know, I might have been 14, 15 as we sort of start to mature and some recognition sort of starts to uh uh grow and and get better and we analyze patterns. And I just saw how we were and I didn't like it. Um I didn't okay. I just saw how we were and I didn't like it. I didn't want to be um I didn't want to be white trash, I didn't want to be discounted, I didn't want to be uh disregarded. I thought there was something better for me than than working the graveyard shift at the Waffle House and watching my stepdad come home and microwave 12-hour coffee and fall asleep on the sofa, you know, or my mother drinking herself to oblivion after her shift waitressing, you know, because she was so and I I see it now as like I wrote the book and and a good therapist really helped me, you know, three years of therapy really okay. We did some hard work in there, and a lot of that I was able to kind of see that, like, you know, my mother specifically was um so miserable in her life. Um she had so much, she was just such a miserable person, she had so much pain in her life. She maybe wanted better for herself. Um, maybe she wanted to be loved, maybe she wanted to be seen. You know, maybe her childhood was not great either. Um maybe she just didn't know how to be better, how to do better for herself and for her son. And um she

Shame, Labels, And Identity Wounds

SPEAKER_01 31:00

carried a lot of anger and a lot of resentment, a lot of bitterness around with her. And some of that, like she took out on me. Um, she needed to blame somebody, she needed to blame something, and um I seem to be the target most of the time.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, yeah. Well, you did say there was a line in your book that you said, I didn't stop hurting. I just stopped asking for it to, I just asked for it to hurt less. And like you said, I mean, pain, it it doesn't go away. And but we can ask for it to not be as consuming. And I think that's what so many survivors do. You know, we don't just carry the memory of our pain, we sometimes recreate it because as strange as it sounds, it's familiar. And we blame ourselves, we settle for less, and then we say that we deserve it. And we end up repeating patterns that we never consciously chose. So looking back, did you find yourself reliving those childhood wounds through self-sabotage or unhealthy relationships and what finally helped you break that?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Oh, absolutely. I destroyed myself every chance I got because I didn't like myself. I was ashamed of where it came from. I was ashamed of who I was, I was ashamed of my parents, I was ashamed of growing up in a trailer park between the Monsanto factory and the International Paper Factory. And um, I was jealous of other people that they were so happy and so complete and so whole. And um, I was jealous of my friends who had loving families and parents that cared for them. And I was consumed with bitterness and did anything to escape that bitterness, right? And I would fill it with alcohol, with drugs, with men, with casual, you know, one-night stands, with relationships that were nothing more than to hopefully relieve me of my pain for an hour, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Went through a lot of dark times, you know, and a lot of just horrible relationships where uh I was my mother and I picked my father over and over again, you know, and it just went through the whole thing of alcoholism and abuse and fighting. And um, I thought, well, that's how I grew up, that's what I saw. That's what you knew, right? That that must be love. This is love. So I'm gonna let him hit me and I'll take another drink.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Oh, okay. Yeah, one one of the things that I appreciated in your memoir is that it we we talked a little bit about the healing. You would take steps back, but you what I liked about your story is you're explaining it w in the pain and the steps that you would take back, but you would continuously step forward at the same time. It was like back, and then you would have some steps toward healing, and then you would go back into it, but then you would learn some things, and then there was more healing that would take place. And I think a lot of people assume, like in that one interview that you talked about, that healing is a straight line, it's not linear. You know, you can still hurt while you're healing, and uh you know, it there was so much pain in what you went through as a young child. It in no way surprises me that you, while you were trying to move forward, found yourself in situations like that. You know, how how do you define healing today?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Good question. The healing for me is when I'm peaceful, like when all those voices in my head are not chattering away, um, when my body uh is at ease, when I am out of my head and in my body. That's that's healing for me, right? Forgiveness is a tricky one for me, okay? I'm not gonna lie. Um I it's it's tricky. Um, but I can't allow myself to stay stuck there. That doesn't benefit me. Um, I can't allow myself to keep licking those wounds. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Like those wounds happen.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

But I've got to keep moving forward, I've got to keep going, right? And certainly in the book, and you know, I think in life, like we often take two steps back and one step forward. And sometimes we have to take that those two steps back to either one relearn the lesson, or sometimes we just need the lesson again, or like you said, sometimes it's just a comfortable pattern of trauma and abuse, and that's the only kind of love I know. So I'm gonna go back to that. Um, it's kind of sort of hard to get out of those patterns, but once you realize that you deserve better, and that also is not easy, right? Like that that takes courage, and sometimes I think it can sometimes be framed as selfishness or narcissism to want better for yourself. But at some point, I think whatever your experience is, whatever's happened to you, good, bad, and different, at one point you have to stop and say, no more of that. That ends. This new thing is for me now. Like the past is not serving me anymore. All it's doing is is taking away the joy of my present from me, right? And so I want to focus on what brings me joy, what brings me peace, what brings me ease and comfort in my life. And and part of that healing for me is um it's not about things, it's not about stuff, it's not about a trip, it's about home and what home feels like. Um, and for me, home feels like cuddling up with my dogs on a Saturday afternoon, you know, on a winter rainy day, right? Um, home feels like making supper for my husband and us having a meal together. Home feels like um not walking in the door and my shoulders clenched up and afraid of what's gonna happen. You know, not being afraid is what is what healing feels like for me now. Being able to speak and say my stuff, you know, that's what healing is for me.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

You know, you you spoke about your husband. I was curious, how did you begin to learn that not everyone is unsafe?

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Um, I had had a relationship prior to him um for about 13 years, that it just uh his name was Cameron, and he saved my life. I had uh just moved to uh I'd met a boy in Pensacola on Acid one night. Um he asked me to move to Memphis with him. Seemed like a great idea, had nothing to hold me down at Pensacola. Um, and so I took off, you know, and I uh spent um 13 years of my life with Cameron. And with Cameron, I really grew up. I learned how to be an adult. I learned how to um, someone taught me how to iron my shirt, someone taught me how to open a checking account, someone taught me how to budget, you know what I mean? Um, I was an insolent, spoiled, bitter child that was angry at the world and attacked everything that I could see, right? And so being in that relationship certainly helped with those things. And when Bobby, my husband and I met, um he uh was adopted uh at 10 months from an orphanage. Um and he has a yeah, and he has a master's in social work. Um and so he used to run the Department of Children and Family Services for the state of Georgia and for LA County. Um, so fate or God or the angels or whatever hooked me up with someone that has a master's in child psychology, right? So clearly I know, right? Um, but it didn't it certainly didn't start out that way, you know. I had so much um shame of my past and who I was, you know. Um I would never talk about my parents, you know. Someone commented one time that um I never talked about my parents and they just assumed they were dead. And I was like, no, they're not, you know, at the time they weren't, and that was it. Like um, I was just so embarrassed about being poor and uh not coming from people that loved me, and I was so ashamed of my background and what I didn't have. And um, so we never focused on those things in the beginning, we never talked about those things, and he was the one that actually helped me make the connection that my mother uh kidnapped me when I was six. We um for me, it was always an event, it was a thing that happened. Um, these are the facts. It was Tuesday morning, 8 a.m. I kissed him goodbye. We walked to school, 8:30. We got in the car. There was no emotion attached to it. Um, and everyone associated the word kidnapped to it. I just said, she took me against my will, which is kidnapping, right? And so, like one day we were um, you know, I forget we were talking or whatever, and he was like, Yeah, your mom kidnapped you from your dad. And I was like, What? No, she didn't kidnap me, she just took me against my will and hid me from him for a year, and then I was like, right, and I was like, Oh, oh, oh, you know what I mean, and then uh yeah, yeah, and so um I was talking to my therapist about that, like you know, several years ago, and so he was like, What you know, what was it like? You know, what was the thing? And I was like, you know, she took me, it was eight o'clock in the morning,

Self-Sabotage And Familiar Pain

SPEAKER_01 40:30

these are the facts, and he was like, No, there's what's the emotion? What's the how did that boy feel? Um, and we tapped into that one day, scared the heck out of me, Ann, um, because it was overwhelming. I was overwhelmed because all of a sudden I really was Timmy again, and I really was six years old again, and all of that raw fear and emotion just smacked me like a ton of bricks. I mean, I was buried underneath it for several days. I couldn't get out of it. It was almost like someone had opened a floodgate and it all just I was drinking the memory and emotion from a water hose. I mean, from a fire hose, you know, it was just oh wow, just coming at, you know, it was just coming at me.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Um, and I had to kind of like really, it took a couple of days to re-regulate myself, you know, from that experience. Um but uh Bobby's always been so good about helping me really identify things that I cannot identify, even though I see it plainly. I know that's a tree, but I just don't have a name for it. And like he comes along and he's like, that's a tree. And I'm like, oh, that that makes sense. Um he actually was the one that um called me out for being competitive one time. Um, and I always assumed that was something for like jocks and sports people, right? Um, and I certainly, as an effeminate little boy, was not playing any sports, no one you know did that with me. And um, I said, no, babe, I'm not competitive, I just want to do better than everybody. And you know, he said, that's that's literally the definition of competitive, you know, and um I think that kind of right as so I think that kind of comes as like a trauma response to right, like I only want positive attention, so I'm gonna be the best, I'm gonna be the fastest, I'm gonna be the smartest, I'm the most creative. Uh look at all these things that I can do that are not that. In reality, we're running from it and we're trying to bury it and we're trying to minimize it. And sometimes those things need to be maximized, as ugly as they are.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. And and you're uh it it's sad and it's not, you know, at the same time. And it sounds like you guys are a great team together. I mean, like he helps you see things the way that they and you know, I think oftentimes when we have a lot of trauma when we're young, our brain takes it in and we have to do with what we need to do to survive for if you would have been six years old saying, I'm being kidnapped, you know, I mean, you were already really upset as it was because you knew that something wasn't right. But imagine if your brain, if if we really understood what was happening at the time instead of in hindsight and with somebody trusting, you know, I mean, that that just helps so much more in you being able to get over it. One of the other parts about survival, though, with you is really interesting to me, and I have it too, is that you can't describe this really because and not everybody has it. And I wish that they did, but you do where no matter what, you're going to wake up the next day and you're going to have a okay, let's tackle this day. We're gonna do it, we're gonna wake up, we're gonna have our best day that we can. And it could have been the absolute worst day the day before, but you're still gonna wake up with a flicker of like hope. Talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

In some ways, it's ridiculous to me, if I'm just being honest, right? Like I had, you know, through you know my 20s, I had no reason to hope. I had no reason to I had no reason to get up, you know. Um, I tried to kill myself three times before I was 20, right? Like it, I didn't see a future for myself. But there were lots of times where I did, and I just was so freaking stubborn about being hopeful and knowing that like there had to be something better for me, there had to be a better life, there had to be a future, there had to be something that wasn't this. And I think that was the hope, just knowing that there could be something better than this, that this these circumstances, this nicotine stain trailer is not my existence. Um and I wished, you know, we we talked about this in therapy, you know, several times. And uh, you know, he would often ask, why were you so hopeful? What kept you going? What was that drive? And I I don't know that I have an answer for that. I I wish I did. I wished I could say A, B, and C. I wish there was a concrete conclusion, but there's not. I just want, I just want to keep going. I deserved to give me a chance, right? Um, right, no, nobody else believed in me. Um, nobody else believed in me, except for me. And even, you know, there were times where it was difficult or challenging and felt hopeless. And you know, sometimes even you know, as an adult in my present form, right? Like I think we still have our days where I'm like, well, this is an absolute mess, you know. Um, but I'm always, you know, I I always go through home remodel right now, it's an absolute mess. Um, but like I get up the next morning, right? And I am always excited about the day. I'm always joyful about the day. Like, what good thing is going to happen today? What am I going to learn? What am I going to not learn? And and some of it I think gratitude really helps quite a bit. I think I was, you know, perhaps grateful for things I shouldn't have been grateful for. This helps explain it. Uh, the Leonard Cohen song, Hallelujah, uh, there's a wonderful line in there. Even though it all went wrong, I stood before the Lord of Song with nothing on my tongue but hallelujah.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Why, why, why do I still have the psalm of Hallelujah on my tongue, despite literally crawling across broken glass in hell? Why? And part of it, I think no one's gonna take that from me. That is the one thing that's mine. That's mine. No one is gonna take that from me. It may turn down to a one sometimes, you know, it may not be as bright as I want it to be sometimes, but that's mine. I earned that. That belongs to me, and no one's taking that away from me. No one's taking my hope from me, despite how bad sometimes things can can be.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Right, right. You know, we often say on the podcast that there is purpose in the pain, and there is hope in the journey. And uh, that doesn't mean that the pain was good, you know, it just means it doesn't have to be the end of the story. How easy is it for people to confuse what happened to them and who they are? Because, you know, they're two completely different things. Was there a moment when you realized that your past didn't have to become your identity?

SPEAKER_01 47:42

Yes, yes, it did. As I got older and got out on the world and became more sure of who I was, I realized that those things were not me, those things were just things that had happened to me, you know, unfortunately. And then I'd sort of realized without meaning to, that I'd started to build a wonderful life for myself. You know, I'd started to be in a relationship, I had a good job in an office, which was, you know, a kind of a feather in my cap at the time. You know, I was trying to do better for myself, and suddenly I'd realized that I had, and that I wasn't stuck in the squalor of trailer parks, and I wasn't stuck with my dad's crack addiction, and you know, I wasn't stuck with my mom's alcoholism, and that those things were not me anymore. I didn't have anything to do with those things, and frankly, those things were never meant for me.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Yeah. I mean, throughout your life, there were voices telling you who you were. You know, some of those voices were deeply hurtful, and some came from people who should have been loving you. And eventually we all have to decide which voices are gonna stay. I'm sure that that was something that you had to work through.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Oh, absolutely. And sometimes that's a uh that's a work through, you know, these days, right? Um uh it it certainly can be, but my my voice is much stronger now than the voices of the past, right? Yeah. Um, and that uh that takes a minute to get through too, you know. You don't just wake up on Wednesday and all of a sudden I've got my own voice now, you know. Um, it doesn't happen that way. Um, and sometimes it takes a little bit of work

Therapy, Trust, And Defiant Hope

SPEAKER_01 49:30

even now, you know. And the messages that I heard, you know, as a child were, you know, I wasn't smart enough, wasn't good enough, my art wasn't good enough. They called me the F Slur. Um, they called me, you know, they called me queer before I even knew what that was, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Um, they made fun of my body, they called me fat and um talked about how much weight I gained. They criticized every bit of food I ate. Um, everything that um I did was under this microscope or this magnifying glass of of disdain and and you know just real ambivalence um towards me in anything that I was interested in.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

One thing was really interesting about your story is that there's lots of ways that we're rejected or not loved unconditionally. And it could be trauma or mental health or addiction or uh you know how we're treated if we're we have a disability or you know, just simply being different. But you know, the shame uh that went along with you. This was interesting to me because, you know, like your dad's uh drugs and he uh literally ran over your foot with his car. Okay. And then your mom is like, no, you're fine, you're fine. In fact, let's go get a slushie. And you know, uh you're standing there uh in front of the cashier getting this slushie, and you're in like the most extreme pain. And no matter how much pain you were in, uh physically or emotionally, you were ignored. You were told, not only that, you were told that you were fine. So, I mean, how do you get in touch with your feelings when you're continually told that you were fine when you knew that you weren't?

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Dudes, I was four years old and he ran me over with the 1974 Cadillac. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's pretty major, right? Um he uh, you know, and I think the year before that I'd swallowed lighter fluid and had my stomach pumped, you know? And so um he was, you know, my dad was concerned. He was a different person than she was. You know, he was like, you know, are you okay or whatever? My mother was just very, you know, uh walk it off, you know, um, we're gonna go get you a slushy, you're fine. Um, and listen, I I feel like she probably, you know, maybe moved the foot to see if it was broken or something. And she was like, he's fine, keep going, you know. But you know, uh me, like if I think like right now, if I you know had a son and you know, accidentally run his foot over, like we are going to the emergency room as fast as we possibly can. I'm doing everything I can to care and comfort for him. We're going to, we're gonna put ice on his foot, we're gonna wrap it up. I already know how to get the hospital. You know what I mean? Like, um, and so to think that uh it it was just disregarded, it was just not even a thing worth even worrying about. I was not even worth being cared for, you know, or taken from you're right. And so I learned quickly that my pain didn't matter, physical or otherwise. Um, I would sometimes have these bad abscesses in like you know, sixth and seventh grade, cause you know, I if I certainly didn't go to the doctor for my foot being ran over, you know they were not taking me to the dentist. I wasn't getting medical care, I wasn't getting any of the things that like you know, I think normal kids have. Um, and so sometimes I would have these really bad abscesses and my jaw would just blow up like that. And um, she would literally tell me to put an aspirin on it and lock me in my room. You know, she'd say, just put an aspirin on it. My jaw swelled out out of here. I am in physical pain. You can die from an abscess. She's like, just put an aspirin on it. Um, and so like I learned very quickly to one, hide my pain, two, my pain didn't matter. Three, really no point in telling anybody how I felt if I was in pain or happy or anything because no one cared.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

I I lived in a house that was crazy making. I mean, that's what I refer that kind of life to, you know, you you literally are seeing something happening and they're saying it's not happening, or you know, you know that you're in pain, you know that your foot was run over, and they're saying that you're fine. I mean, it really does bring a layer of crazy making to the mess because you know what you're seeing, but you're even kind of questioning, wait, am I seeing am I hurt? Am I I mean, I mean, I'm told that I'm not. So then maybe I'm not. I'm you question what you see because the adult, the trusted people in your life are telling you that it's not happening, so it must not be happening, even though my eyes are telling me that it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Yeah, yeah. So many confusing messages as a child that were hard for me to navigate and understand, which is probably why I work so well with ambiguity and abstract facts, because I can pull from those things that I need. And people sometimes say things like, Um, you're so brave, you're so resilient, you're so strong, what a you know, what a thing, right? And I appreciate it and I know they mean it. I know they mean it. Um, and I wish I didn't have to be. And sometimes I'm bitter about it, you know. Uh you know, I kind of was joking with my husband when time we first met, you know, he was talking about, you know, maybe going to school and his mom making food and all that stuff. And I said, wait, you went to school and you got food? How is that? How did that work, right? And it's sort of joking, but it's also serious, you know. Um, and so part of it, I think maybe my coping mechanism is definitely dark humor, you know, about these things. It just it is what it is. Um, I uh I have to cope somehow sometimes, right? So I've just gotta make it dark humor and I can, you know, accept it um and you know kind of move on from that.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

It but it really does show how much our childhood affects us even in our 50s. I know. I mean, it's like you know, it it's been 50 years ago. Why why shouldn't it affect us? But it made us, you know, it really does still affect a lot of our waking moments. And even if we're successful, which I did want to ask you, because I'm really curious, what what does success look like to you?

SPEAKER_01 56:20

You know, I'm gonna put it back in my uh my my my healing lens, right? Um, I think everybody's like, oh, I want millions of dollars and 47 houses and a Mercedes and a Rolls-Royce and 20 boats, right? Um, I was never interested in those things. Um, it doesn't mean like I don't have ambition or I'm not, you know, whatever. Right. But like success for me is having a job that uh pays you well, appreciates you. Um success for me is knowing that my bills are paid. Um I can go to the supermarket and I don't think about, I don't think about the stuff that I buy. You know, I don't give a second glance when I go to fill up the gas tank. You know, um success to me is being able to make supper at night for my husband. Um, success is being able to take the dogs to the vet when they're not feeling well. Um, success is being able to comfort my friend or buy school supplies for a school teacher in the middle of nowhere. You know, success for me is is is being able to help people and do things that were not done for me. Um because I know what that's not like. A lot of things that frame my actions to this day are what was not done for me that I can do for someone else. Um mothering someone, nurturing someone fulfills a need in me to be mothered or to be nurtured that I never had, and that if I'm being honest, I don't allow a lot of uh just because you know the nurturing energy was sort of never there for me, and when it was, it it always came with a hammer in the other hand, right? And so um even now, like uh I still sort of keep everyone at arm's length distance. Um no one gets uh no one gets too close, you know. I let you as close as close as I can.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah. I understand that since we're both the same way, we will just um really like each other from about 30 yards away. So because I'm the same way, but you know, in your memoir, you it is courageous. And I know that maybe you don't want to hear that because you don't want to have to be. But were there parts at your book, because I'm sure that this was super hard to write. Were there parts in your book where you were like, should I really tell this?

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah, yeah. Should I really tell this? Should I really relive this? Should I bring more shame, you know, to myself? Um, what's my aunt gonna think when she reads it?

SPEAKER_00 58:59

You know, like yeah, I was gonna ask you if there were people alive still in your life, because I know your parents are gone, but I mean, are there people in your life who are reading this or you know, are are they like cheering you on and saying, or they watched you live through this and they're they believe in you and they're like so proud of you?

SPEAKER_01 59:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

No, no, um I hate that for you.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Um I hate that for me too. Um and it stings, it stings. Um but I also didn't expect anything more from them because they just don't have they just don't have it to give. Um, they had written a book about you know whatever it was, you know, I'd I'd be the first one to get it because I knew what it means not to be supported, so I want to support you. Um my my aunt read it, uh, who's my mother's sister, uh, who knew she had her issues. Um I don't know if she's fully read it. I believe that she has, and she sent me some very nice messages about it. And then turns out she shared with me that before my parents' divorce and before the kidnapping, that she had filed with the court to get custody of me because she yeah, and I don't think I didn't spend a couple of weeks like spinning that around in my head, um, trying to mourning

Success, Power, And Telling The Truth

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

the life I never had, mourning the wonderful life I could have had with her, right? Yes, um, and that's unsettling. Um, but so basically my dad, and this this hurt me when I found this out. And this was you know two months ago, um, that my dad was willing to give me up. Um, that he um and I'm gonna try not to cry, right? Because of that, he was willing to give me up.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Like how and you loved your dad. You loved him.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

I loved him with everything I had. Um, but like, you know, my aunt said that they realized just what you know uh a nut job my mom was. And then my dad was just not, I just wasn't who he was. He wasn't a fighter, he wasn't gonna be confrontational, he was gonna choose the easiest path, and that was to give up his son, then that's what he would do. Because uh I like to think he thought maybe that was the right decision, that that would be the best thing for me, you know. But as an adult man, that hurts a little boy in me to know that he was just so sure uh willing to just give me up. Did I mean um did I mean so little to you? Did I mean so little to both of you that that you couldn't love me? What was so what was so wrong with that little boy? That's always my question. What was so wrong with that little boy? What did he do? How did he hurt you to make you not want him to be your son? What did I do?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

I'm just curious as you're saying this. I mean, uh, how did they treat Eric? I mean, did they treat him the same? I mean, he seemed to go through a lot too, but I don't know. Where was it different?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

It was absolutely different for him. Um he was straight, he was, you know, masculine, he was the son of my stepfather. He was treated well. Um, he was treated well, and I loved him. God, I loved him so much. Even before he was born, I loved him. You know, I remember, you know, my mom telling me, you know, she was pregnant with him and uh, you know, kind of hyping me up. And uh I was so excited to be a big brother to him because um I uh I could take care of somebody the way I needed to be taken care of, you know, is what I remember thinking. I just uh our relationship growing up was very was very special. He was such a he was such a good little boy and such a good um, just like a safe little harbor and such a best friend for me. Because I was in my teenage years around that time, you know, and definitely there was no hiding that um that I was a gay boy, you know, and my mother just hated it, and my stepfather definitely was not a fan of it. And so I think, you know, they saw Eric as, you know, sort of being the the anti-Tim, right? Like, you know, it was uh more to their liking. And um as I was going through this and doing all my social media postal stuff, um, I realized that there's only five pictures that I have with my mother that she ever took with me. And the last one is when she was pregnant with my brother, and after she had him, there were no more pictures of me and her together. Nothing. Wow, okay. Literally, I am not in the picture. You know what I mean? Um, and I sort of crazy. Isn't that like um isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

It's really sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

It is, and it hurts and it makes me bitter and it makes me angry and it makes me rage. Um, but I can't I can't give end to those things. Those things are not me, those things are not who I want to be, you know. I think I can certainly acknowledge it, and I think I deserve to be mad about it, and I deserve to be heard about it, and I certainly do give myself that space and that time to do it. I think that's healthy. Um, but I can't be consumed by the rejection of my parents.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

I just yeah, no, no, it's not healthy. It's it's just not.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

It's not gonna do anything for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

And then I always look at it when people treat me badly, whether they meant to or not, you know. I mean, it really is just hurting me. So just to try to let it go. You you know, your story really does remind us that resilience isn't about pretending uh that life didn't hurt. It has nothing, it's not the same thing at all. When and I do think that this is a brave story, whether you want to have that story, uh and I'm sure you don't want to have this story. This this story is yours, but I'm sure you don't want it. But what do you want people to take away from your story?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

That they are not their circumstances, you are not where you came from. Um, you can build better and you can believe in better, and you can believe in yourself, um, and you can create the life that you want, you can create the things that you want, you can create your reality. Um, you have to choose to do it. It takes hard work. It's almost like pushing a boulder up a mountain for the rest of your life, right? But if you're willing to push that boulder up the mountain, you're gonna get to the top and you're gonna see the most amazing vista and you're gonna see the sunrise, and it's gonna be glorious. And then there are some days you've got to keep pushing that boulder up another mountain. That's just how it is, right? Um, I think that almost is is is almost the definition of life. But I would hope that people would take away hope in themselves. themselves and that they can choose you can choose who you want to be. You can choose to be better than your circumstances. You can make choices that are not your past. Um you can do better for yourself. And I I hope that people take that from the book. I hope they try to do better for themselves. I hope if it's a parent that recognizes a pattern in them that they stop, if it's someone that's in that, know that it gets better. Know that there is, you've got a chance. You've got a chance at a really good life, and I hope you take it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

I'm glad that you're using your story for good because you are. You know, so many times when we tell our stories, people were like, Why are you why are you telling that? I mean, it's negative. Why, what, what's your purpose behind this? And I love that we do here on the podcast, and I love what you're doing with your story, is that the whole point is to take pain and give others hope and to say, you know what? I did it and listen to this. And if I can do it, you can do it. I mean, your story too reminds us that healing isn't overnight, and that's okay. I mean, it shouldn't be, and it never is. And it's made up of a bunch of small decisions, a small step, you know, small moments of courage. When you look back at your younger Timmy, you know, that little boy who had no idea where life was going. What would you tell him today?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

Hang in there, kid. It's gonna get worse where it gets better.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

But you're gonna have the strength to be able to get through it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:39

You will not believe how strong you're gonna be. Um, you will not believe how brave you're going to be. Uh, you are not gonna believe what's inside of you, and you're gonna continue to move forward, and you're gonna still be successful, and you're not gonna be afraid to love, and you're not gonna be afraid to be loved, and it's gonna be kind of gnarly for a few years, but uh the end is gonna be so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

What's one lesson that you wish every child had growing up with what they could believe about themselves?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

To believe in themselves. And I know you just asked that literally just said that, but I think that is the one lesson that I would say is like believe in yourself. Don't believe in that doubt, don't believe in that narrative in your head that says whatever. Uh, don't believe the remedial teacher that tells you your art isn't good enough. Don't believe you when your parents tell you you're stupid. Believe in yourself, believe in hope and believe in grace and believe in dignity.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

One of my favorite parts of your book is the Where the Red Fern Grows. You know, you got this book, Where the Red Fern Grows. And it wasn't just that you learn to read because you were behind. I mean, that's yeah. And you did connect with the story, and it showed you that even in the middle of sadness, loss, and being left behind, that something beautiful could still grow. You know, isn't it interesting? I found it really interesting how sometimes the very place that we struggle the most becomes the place that we eventually find in our with our greatest strengths, you know, to be our greatest strengths. Reading was, you know, incredibly difficult for you, yet books became a refuge. And I relate to that because, you know, reading was one of my biggest struggles growing up too, and communication was another. And I spent much of my life being told that I was wasn't good at all at these things, yet today I write and I host a podcast, and I think I do pretty well. So, you know, right? I mean, we can take what we think are our weaknesses, and they can become our strengths with no help from others, either, like you said, believing in yourself. And sometimes we don't have others believing in us, and it's just ourselves that really matters. How can people really just tap into this like you did? I mean, I think that it's just amazing. Find even where your weakness is, and it became your strength.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

I wish I could give people an answer. Um, I I wish I could say this is the formula. I think I was able to take something that was diminished, that was sort of beaten down in me, you know, literally and figuratively, and able to somehow or another turn that into my superpower, right? Like my ability to okay, um, yeah, you know, uh it was almost a way, yeah, yeah, just turning into a superpower. Um, taking back something that was taken from me, um, taking back that power that was taken from me. And in these days, like I'm a big believer, and I think this may answer it. Like, I'm a big believer in your personal power and taking back your power from circumstances or places that aren't suiting you, aren't nourishing you, aren't feeding you. Power is rarely given and it's always taken. And I encourage people to take your power back. Yeah, take your power back.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

I really like that. I took so much out of your book. There were so many really great lessons in your book, and it came down to a lot of just strength and persistence and not giving up and waking up the next day and saying, you know what, it's hard, but I'm just gonna put one step in front of the other, and maybe I can't even see the next step, but I'm gonna take it anyway. You know, so I really thank you for writing this book. How can people get a hold of you or get your book?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Or yeah. Um, you can reach me on my Instagram account, Tim.smith. You may also get the book at faultlinememoir.com. And it's also on Amazon, Fault Line Still Standing.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:13

So, Tim, I really want to thank you for being here. I really want to thank you for writing this book, but I also want to thank you for your willingness to tell the truth. You know, one of the things that struck me while reading Fault Line Still Standing is that your story is certainly about trauma. It is trauma, trauma, trauma, but it is even more about survival. It's about hope and resilience. It's about discovering that our past doesn't have to destroy us. It doesn't explain us. And it never does have to define us. We can become whatever we want to become in spite of. So thank you for reminding people that healing is possible and that there is life beyond the fault line. It has truly been an honor having you with us today. And I want to say that, Tim, one of the things that we believe here at Real Talk with Tina and Anne, which I kind of, you know, mentioned earlier, was purpose in the pain and hope in this in the journey. And your story doesn't glorify the pain, but it certainly shows us that hope is possible. So thank you again for being here and showing us that it doesn't have to be where the story ends.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

Thank you so much, Ann. It's absolutely my pleasure to be here and share my story. And thank you for your compassion and your willingness to listen, and certainly for for understanding my story. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

And to our listeners, as we always say, there is purpose in the pain and there is hope in the journey. And we will see you next time.