ADHD in Women with Dr. Jennifer Dall: Diagnosed at 53

Meeting Dr. Jennifer Dahl

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Anne. Today we're diving into the beautiful chaos of ADHD, resilience, and the power of self-discovery with someone who truly understands the journey. Our guest is Dr. Jennifer Dahl, founder of ADHD holistically. She's a grief-informed neurodivergence specialist with over 25 years of experience as an educator, ADHD coach, yoga instructor, and grief educator. Dr. Jennifer brings a deeply personal, compassionate, and holistic approach to helping neurodivergent individuals not just survive, but truly thrive. She helps women reframe their ADHD narratives and unlock their full potential. Her work also extends to therapists, life coaches, and HR professionals offering comprehensive training to better support neurodivergent clients and employees. And I cannot tell you how needed this is. Get ready for real tools, honest insights, and a conversation that might just shift how you see yourself or someone you love. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

I'm so excited about talking with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, I have to tell you, as someone with autism and ADHD, I very much am looking forward to this conversation. You were diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 53 and have developed quite the practical holistic tool belt. It says, for one thing, so much about who you are that you developed your own way of coping throughout your life. But it must have been so frustrating for you to have a reason for what was going on for you for so long. There are so many people that have walked this journey. We all want validation and a diagnosis so we know how to treat what is going on with us. Talk about that emotional toll you went through living when undiagnosed or misdiagnosed ADHD for so long.

The Struggle of Undiagnosed ADHD

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, you're exactly right. It has been very emotional. And I know so many people, so many women understand this. Being in, you know, in the age group I'm at, even with being in education and being a social education teacher and having a doctorate in educational psychology, there's just so much information that nobody had and nobody knew. And so it it has been really hard. I, in my journey, I had begun to suspect things just because I have this knowledge and this experience. Some of my suspecting came um from my students. I taught high school a lot. I really liked high school. When I first started, most of my kids were boys. Gradually we'd get more and more girls, and I would look at some of those girls who came in with an ADHD diagnosis, and I'd be like, huh, that's really interesting. And so I think about it, but I would ask people I knew in education or whatever, people who knew things about ADHD, do you think or I think? And they'd say, Oh no, you can't possibly. You have done all of these things. You, you know, they they even people within it still think of ADHD as like this eight-year-old boy who's bouncing all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Right. And so, oh no, you can't possibly. And I would learn more, and I would see more things that I would do or that are about me. I was like, huh. And I'd ask somebody, and the sometimes I didn't want to ask because maybe I didn't really want to know. But it was just a long time of that. And so then kind of, I guess, being gaslit even by myself, by people who cared about me, by doctors, by, you know, therapists. Um my daughter went to college. And I know you just recently had a show about like emptiness and oh yeah, your kids leaving. And that one really, really spoke to me. But it was hard. And I went to um my healthcare providers, and it was okay, you're depressed. Here's some uh antidepressants, which I am now. She uh she's in law school now. I am now trying to go off of. And if anyone who's been on those knows it is a very, very um difficult thing to do. So, but back to that when I went in, there was never any look at could it be these other things? It was just here, here's a medication, take this, go on. Like I say, like with many people, it's just this ongoing process of learning things. You know, we all came to the pandemic and we all slowed down and quieted down and started getting more information. And just the number of times we're just little, little checks kept going off until it was, we need to talk about this. Um, I think part of it also is when I was young, you know, there in over time there's just not been a lot of research and knowledge about women and girls. So much has been focused on boys, so much has been focused on the type of ADHD that is very impulsive outward, as opposed to other kinds, especially with many girls where you're you're quieter, you're inside. It doesn't mean my mind's not impulsive, it doesn't mean my mind is not going all over the place. But more information has come about. I started hearing more, I started really internalizing it and looking at what was going on with my students. And then I started advocating and pushing for myself. And and there's still people who they may not believe me, or it's still, they just don't have the information. And that's true. And one of the reasons I also like working with professionals is I also deal with grief. Uh, my husband died suddenly um just over three years ago from suicide. And I have a really great physical therapist who knows trauma, who knows all of that. But there's also been many times when I've been teaching her and she knows that and she appreciates that. And so understanding that there are people that you come across who don't understand the um what ADHD is, the connection between ADHD or autism or any any of these things and other things, depression and grief, and how often people, women may be diagnosed with depression or anxiety instead of ADHD or autism, when it could be both or it could sure. And those those whole roads of not then finding solutions that really work for you. I know I just really went down a rabbit hole there.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Well, I mean, you touched on something, I think, because you know, we wouldn't treat cancer with heart disease

Gender Bias in ADHD Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 6:53

protocol. So why do you think it's so hard for women to get diagnosed? How can clin clinicians do better? I think for one thing, they don't have a lot of knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Clinicians, teachers, the the world out there, whether you yourself may or may not have ADHD or you have a child that has ADHD, but there's just not a lot of knowledge. With any kind of research, there's a lag. The research happens and then it has to be verified and then published go out. So there's this huge lag. And I think people just don't know and they don't know what they don't know, which happens a lot. Right. You know, I I I've heard in you know in medical school school the frightening small portion of their time that is spent on things like this, as well as other health conditions, especially with women, menopause, things like that. So I think it's just not out there. And until it starts to impact you or someone you know, or someone really comes forward and tells you about it, I think it's probably just not even on their minds, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

You know, before I or, you know, other people that I know have gone into health professionals um to be diagnosed and they're going to be making that decision, whether we have ADHD or not, they have us either sit in the lobby or at home before we get there, filling out pages and pages of questions. And it's like describe yourself from one to five or extremely to not at all questions. And, you know, I found myself trying hard not to really read too much into them because just answering the question is difficult because sometimes it depends on the day, depends on the scenario, depends on if I had enough sleep that night. You know, not everything is black and white. And and and and when you go in there oftentimes, and if you do something that you don't even know that you did, they're like, oh no, you don't have it. I just saw you do this. So there's no way you could have it. And, you know, it can be so frustrating in the hands of some being in the hands of somebody else that is making huge decisions about our life. Can you speak on this at all? Because, you know, I think this is a huge reason why so many of us are not diagnosed. Should there be separate forms for like men and women? I mean, what needs to be different?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I think the whole process needs to be looked at. Like you said, you can go in and you can fill out this form. And depending on so many things that day, yeah, you fill that out differently. And so thinking about that, you may before you even go in there think about other times when whether it was just a simple personality quiz or something, or at work you were given something and you went through that same process. That's very hard. I think a lot of it, not just boys and girls, but also getting into the different types of ADHD and the different ages. Some of the assessment tools seem like they're really geared towards children. Um, I'll give an example. I have a really good friend who has ADHD. She's also wondered, she has autism. So she went through the process through one of the companies that will assess you. And she put me down as someone for them to reach out to. And they sent me a survey. And having been in education, I've seen these surveys for kids. And it seemed like so many of the things that they asked about her, I felt weren't appropriate. And I told her this. I said, I don't know what your results are going to say because I see you as this person, as this woman who's in her 50s, who's successful, who's done these things, who's masked with education, who knows all these things. She knows she's supposed to shower. And she then will, you know, the pandemic may have changed all of our relationships with that a little bit. But it's like when you're looking at whether or not a kid does something or makes eye contact, she knows she's supposed to make eye contact. She knows she's supposed to do these things. And so that assessment, and then also back to the ADHD, you know, they want to know, well, what did your teacher say? I was in school in the 70s and 80s. You know, either said I needed to talk more or I needed to stop passing notes and talking to my friends all the time. You know, okay. You need to study for uh calculus and not just the classes you like. You know, they wouldn't, even if I knew where those records were, I don't know that they're going to be that helpful for a large number of people. And so that whole process, like you said, filling out those forms, getting the information, maybe getting relatives or people you knew to remember and be honest about it, um, you know, these are all really big factors. So, yes, back to male, female, but also I would say age group, because trying to diagnose people who are a little bit older versus teenagers and kids, especially given the way our world is so different, our lives were scientists. Um, I think it needs to be a much more holistic approach. And I know that then some people just don't want to go through it. You know, there's a lot of gatekeeping. There can be long lists to get assessed, it can cost money, it can be scary, and you can go through all this and still be told, like you said, no, you have a doctorate. You, you know, you have your own business. You can't possibly have this. So then where are you left?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

How about women are naturally high achievers? We work really hard, we are pleasers, you know, we go around um being everybody's person that we have to do things for, you know, whether it's our kids or our parents or whatever or a partner, you know, we're just that person and we can multitask. I mean, that's what we do. So, you know, that in itself can appear like, well, you can do all of these things. What's going on on the inside, though? You know?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

This the self-talk, the stories, the exhaustion. I mean, can we be honest that that doing that at that level is exhausting?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

It really is. How about can you get to sleep at night because you can't turn your brain off after you've done all of these things? How about you can't find anything that you just put someplace because that's me?

SPEAKER_01 13:07

And how come there's the the things that you do and the things that you don't do based on interest and all of that and other people not understanding? Like, why haven't you taken boxes of stuff to donate in the car? Why haven't you taken them in? Don't you see them? I see them, but then I forget. And you know, and uh some people, you know, partners, friends, bosses, sometimes they don't understand and they take it in a different way and then than the stories you tell yourself about that, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Well, maybe having more questions about masking on those because

Masking and Invisible ADHD Symptoms

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I think that we're pretty much talking about masking here. Yeah. So if they had a whole section on masking, that would be great because I think more people would be diagnosed.

unknown 13:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

And perhaps, you know, different kinds of scenarios. Like, do you do something like this? Has anyone ever said that you do this? Do you ever find yourself doing this? Different kinds of things where you're masking, you know, even explaining how you go about certain things. One thing that people say to me that irritates me is oh, just do it. It's so easy. And yeah, whatever we're talking about is so easy. The laundry is not hard, but it takes many more steps than someone who just does do it knows. So even like we do mask questions about masking, questions about if you had to do this, how would you do it? And listening to is it, I would just do it, or is it, oh, okay. And then there's all these steps that you realize you have to do and backtracking.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

And then Yeah, somebody, somebody just said to me something that was just so simple. Well, why don't you just do that? And I said, Well, that just adds a whole nother layer to my morning. And you know, and it's true.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

And as back to as women, you're expected to, you're supposed to, right? All of these things and yeah, and some of the things I've learned to do. And I understand it's a little bit of a privilege, but especially since I've been empty nest and single is ordering from some meal kits, sometimes having my groceries delivered. We can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Then at least I'm eating. Right. It does make it simpler. It does. So what what happens when we walk away and we get that no? What should we do?

SPEAKER_01 15:29

I would first of all take a deep breath. Think about it. Maybe they've given you reasons why no. And and think about it. And perhaps whether it's a therapist who actually knows things or a friend or somebody in your life that you could then sit down with and talk it through. Because in a way, it's this person's opinion. It is not like a COVID test where you are positive or a pregnancy test where you are or you are not. Okay, maybe you don't have ADHD, but these are still things that are going on that are impacting your life. And so the most important thing I think is then seeing that and working with that and and finding ways to make your life better. Not not to be able to be more productive. We don't need to be more productive, we need to rest. But okay, whether this doctor says yes or no, that I have ADHD, these are the things that made me think I did. And this is how they're impacting my life. Okay. Okay. And like one by one, what is something I can do? Is is my boss saying something that so this is impacting my work? Is this impacting my relationships? Is this impacting my ability to, you know, eat healthy or whatever is important to me? And so believing yourself, you could go to another doctor, you know, wait a second. Right. And then also decide how much that piece of paper means to you, really. Because whether you're self-diagnosed or you're diagnosed, if you see these things in your life and you see that they're struggles, then let's work on finding ways to make a little bit better, whether it's the low-hanging fruit or whether it's more like this is really impacting my job, and I might get fired and I need a job. Right. And and doing that. Because you get into this where, well, I have to have the diagnosis. And the doctor said no. Well, in all kinds of health issues, we all know stories of people who were told something that was then not true.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah, second opinions are really good. And I really don't like sometimes the feeling that they have um the diagnostic person has feeling like they are over God over us in a way where I'm making this decision about you, and nope, you don't have it.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Agreed, because whether we're talking about ADHD characteristics or some physical health characteristic in a trait, you know, a cut, losing weight, whatever, these are actually happening to you. They're it's your story, it's your existence. Right. You knew yourself better than anybody. You know yourself. So let's try to find some support from somebody who believes you and supports you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Did you feel differently after you were diagnosed officially in when you were 53? Did it change your perspective about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, I felt a little more validated in a way. Okay. But also then I think, and you may have gone through this. I think with a lot of people there's kind of a grieving period. Um period, wondering, wow, what if we had known this five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago? You know, what would my life and what would this decision have been? I'm I mentioned that I'm titrating off an antidepressant that is very, very challenging to come off of. Like, what if that hadn't happened? That's a solid thing right now in my mind. But that's not what happened. So this is the path I'm on. And this I know allows me to help people and talk to people and understand other people who go through this. Um, it felt a little validated, but if if they had been like, yeah, no, mm-mm, I think that it would have it would have hurt and still I would hope that I would then say, but I still see this and I still know this. And I think it's a little bit easier now. I think there's more of a discussion about you don't have to be, you can self-diagnose if if you see this is what's going on, sure, own it and do something about it. I also know that a lot of uh women, a lot of adults find out when their kids end up being assessed, somebody at school. I've heard that. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

You're right, because they just didn't diagnose very much back when I was like, I was like that as a kid. What's the problem? Oh, right. Well, this is the problem. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't even a thing. I mean, when I was growing up, there weren't there was not very many people who had autism or ADHD. We just didn't even talk about those things.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So we didn't talk about it. It wasn't labeled. Often it was marked off as like a personality thing. You're just lazy, you're argumentative, you're disagreeable.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Right. You're the bouncy kid in the class or whatever. Yeah, you don't pay attention. That kind of stuff. Right. Right. We did touch on masking. So can you define what masking is for people that might not understand and just kind of maybe say what it looks like in women?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Okay. So masking is like, well, basically putting on a mask. And so it's pretending, it's being something you're not. People with ADHD and autism, I think, are really good at, especially women who have learned to do this. I can I can see what you want out of me, and I can put that face on. So it's almost like putting on a different face. It's it's talking a certain way, acting a certain way, covering up things. So with certain people, it's one look. And then maybe you have a friend who has ADHD or autism or is just very open, and you're a totally different person because you can relax the mask off, and you're actually yourself. And so masking is hiding your distraction or hiding your disorganization or hiding and not asking for help or telling people because you feel like that gives you safety because it's not safe to put it out there in the world. And that is tiring and it's really an effective. I mean, we do it. It's a strategy we learned. Right. But maybe think about somebody who, if you think human, some a situation where you kind of think you're masking and a situation where you Person you know you don't have to mask with, and then sit there and think about that. Like, wow, which do I prefer? Which is actually better? And kind of not get mad at yourself, but just like realize what's been going on and how you've been trained to mask. So just like you're wearing a mask for illness or anybody's wearing a mask for any reason, Halloween, you wear a mask and you're a different person in a way. Right. Uh it's a performance. Yes. In a way. I mean, when I go in performance guessing what I think you want. It's not I'm an actor and I'm playing a fellow, and this is the role. It's I don't know you, so I'm guessing what I think you want, and I'm giving that. Or I think in school, you know, this is what you have. This is this is school me.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Right. And that's when lots of times when you get home, you just let it all out and you really are exhausted.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you might not know why, and you might get down on yourself. All I did was go to an event for an hour, but it was about I don't know. I tend to be shy, but I had to be a certain way. It was before I talk to a few people, and you could just pass out or stare at the TV or whatever you do.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah. You know, before I have to go to an event like that, I oftentimes will go early. I'll look around, I'll see who I have to, you know, what my expectations are, where I'm going to be sitting, and that kind of thing. And it really does help me prepare, uh, because, you know, I am scared to death really on the inside. I might appear like I'm not, but you know, these type of s situations, like with you on Zoom and that type, you know, those are a lot easier because they're, you know, we're not together and that kind of thing. And but you put me in a situation where I'm not comfortable, I'm gonna act completely different.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yes. And that completely different for me could be not saying a peep, just shrinking up, shutting down, shutting down, or if I then connect with you, that oversharing, nonstop talking. I don't know if you find that when you flick with somebody who's like that. I've done that. Yeah. And and not a lot of room in between unless it's a very, I don't want to say scriptured, but structured kind of setting. Right. You are here for a thing. Like if I go and I volunteer at something, and this is the specific thing. I'm I'm ushering at this theater. It I I know the rules, but if somebody has a call out for we need volunteers to come to this thing and you don't know what you're doing, it can feel very um unsettling and can be very hard.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yeah, I have a lot of scripts in my head as I go into situations and I know like this is what I'm gonna say, and then I'm good. And then if it goes beyond that, I'm like, oh shoot, now what do I say? Yeah, yeah. So random small talk is hard. It is very much so, because it goes outside of the script. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, with women and understanding and being able to spot ADHD, there are a lot of invisible and missed misunderstood symptoms. Could you talk about some of those?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Sure. Um, so it's gonna it's gonna vary, like everything it varies with the person, where they are, what they've learned, how they do. I would say, and I I talk about this with kids and with adults, it can be that you're really, really good at some things, and some things, it's not that you're not good at them, you just don't do them. And so it can show up with people not understanding when you're into something, you totally go all out. You deep dive, you hyperfocus on it. But when I ask you to do something else that you don't want to, it's like you physically can't do it. It's not that you're being stubborn or defiant. It's just there we go. There's like this you physically can't do it. And people who don't understand that don't understand that they take it all kinds of ways. There's there's the what's saying that people with ADHD are also l always late, and and some of them are, but I was always really early. And it's not like some people are early because they don't want to be late. I'm early or I'm late. But if I'm early, it's because I can't, I know I can't adequately figure out the amount of time to get there. Even with like a maps program, okay, it's 30 minutes, okay. And then I park, okay, 40, but then I'm probably getting there an hour and a half early because I just there's this time that time is different. And I've been trained to

Strategies for Managing ADHD

SPEAKER_01 27:06

you know, it it's it can be like you're always really early. And then you cover that. You masked, oh, I always have a book, or I have a podcast, or depending where it is, I go for a walk or I get a coffee, you know, like I've planned this. Like, no, this was my plan, but it wasn't really a plan. It was just a mask to cover that up. Right. Yes. You know, oh, I have to be there at eight. Okay, no problem. And it's and then all of a sudden it's five to eight, and it's not that I didn't value or anything. So then I go back to I'm much more okay, I'm leaving very early, not because I'm one of those people that has to be early, but because time is just a little iffy.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

You are describing my life. I mean, you hit it just the other day. I had to be somewhere, and I like over and over again, and I was talking with somebody, okay, well, we have to be somewhere here at this time, and it takes us 30 minutes to get there. So then I have to do this, and that takes me about 20 minutes. And so then, and and then like an hour later, I had to do it again because I couldn't remember, you know, really what I had just said.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

And like, you know, another joke or meme is like, oh, if you make an appointment at three o'clock, your day's gone. Like, you can't do anything before that. And how do you explain that?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Oh my god, other people I'll go to work till 12, I'll take lunch, and then I'll go like, but but this if we need preparation time and we need revisionary time, recovery time is really important too.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

And I've I've learned that I still struggle with it because I think I shouldn't. But even like taking a trip or anything like that, I really need to block out a couple of days afterwards, but then I thought myself about that. Like, why are you on vacation? You don't need to come back. You haven't been doing things. Yeah. So those are some things. A lot of has to do with time and organization and emotional reaction, um, emotional reaction, like uh rejection, sensitivity, just getting really upset about something that other people think isn't that important. At least for me, and I know a lot of other people, like it is this deep wound, and other people don't see that or understand that. You know, you're being too sensitive. And so to the extent that you can like sit with it, journal through it or write with it, and then get to the other side of it, it's better. But emotional regulation can be hard. Absolutely. Yeah, you're hitting every single one. Personally, one of my best friends, the one I was talking about with the ADHD and the autism, you know, I have learned, and this has taken me a really long time to say the texts are like RSD is real. Are you mad at me? And she'll say, No, but a lot of people you can't say that to.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

So be like, why? What? Yeah. I can be oversensitive too at times. You know, I know who I can't ask that, and I know who I can. And, you know, I do have one particular friend and she has autism too. And we'll go back and forth, oh, I haven't heard from you in a week. Are you mad at me? You know, that kind of thing. Or I messaged you and you didn't you didn't text me back, what's wrong? You know, that kind of thing. But I try uh to not do that to people like I know I can't do that too.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, and there's there's just so many things. And and I think one of the interesting things is, you know, reading those surveys or listening to people or, you know, whether on social media or whatever, and the little ones where they talk about one little trait that they didn't realize. And then if you realize because I mean I continue to learn things, you know, like walking into things, you know, the proprioception, the body and space thing. Oh my gosh, you have that too? You do? Oh my gosh, mine is so bad. Because I I haven't run a lot lately, but I used to run like I could run American and maybe get a blister, but I can't walk through a doorway or past a table without smacking into it. Oh my gosh. Oh, it totally is. It's a it's a proprioception and area and space. I had trouble with stairs. If you have trouble with stairs, and that was one of the things I always hated to ask somebody because I was afraid something like more like, do I have a tumor? You know, those those ways you go.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah. Well, my spatial is off everywhere I go, especially if I walk into a very open space. I can actually feel like I have to hold on to something.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Mm-hmm. That's ADHD. Is that us? You may be afraid to say to a doctor, because I they're not going to believe you or you're dying, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Right. Oh my gosh, that is so not that I'm glad that you have that, but I'm glad to find somebody else that truly gets that because I have that all the time. And I also knock over everything. Um, and there could be it could be a huge room, but I'm gonna walk into that table. Oh, I'm gonna spell it.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

There was an Apple store in town that had I don't know if they were glass or plastic or whatever, but they were clear see-through stairs to the second story. Yeah, it dizzy, like like almost sick to my stomach. Oh my gosh. Trying to walk up or stairs. I had a where I worked in an office and like usually stairs are like this, but like this part was open. So there was stairs, stairs, stairs, but it was open. Yes. Oh, I hated that staircase.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I can't do things like that either. And my mom, yes, my mom never let me pour anything because uh I always spilled everything. So my all my spatial, no depth perception, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, very, very off. I mean, you are speaking my language. Oh my gosh, this is so interesting to me. So, you know, though you out you've become successful in spite of all of this. What was your career path like? I mean, what kind of things did you encounter along the way?

SPEAKER_01 33:21

So um, I ended up in teaching, and I was teaching, and I was teaching mostly like special ed and and general ed in English that fit me, I think, in lots of ways because there's so much structure. Like we don't like structure, don't tell me what to do, but I also have to have structure. Right. Teaching in a high school, you have bells, you have calendars, you have, and that's one of the things since I left, I have really, really struggled with is um time. I I now have some structures in place that work really well. So it allowed some of that. When I then moved into more of an administrative role, it was not good because the rules, the all of that was just not good for me. And so realization, especially with the pandemic, like I wanted to be able to go out and help other people and talk to other people and also realize the things that have happened to me, how they impact it. And I always feel good when I listen to a podcast or I read something and I hear somebody talking and like they're talking to me. Like that can make such a difference in that day. Like, oh, here's somebody who stands. I'm not alone. I know there's a lot of people with ATHD who are entrepreneurs, but it's also hard that that out there bit, you know. Yeah. But I I just feel like at this point in my life, at this stage of my life, just wanting to make contact with people and connect with people and just help somebody in some way. Uh-huh. Um, because that's what means so much to me when I hear something from somebody or just, you know, talking to you and you validate what I've said. Yes. You know, yes. And if anybody listening is like, yes, these two women they're talking about this.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yes. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you touched was about time. And if all of a sudden I have time, I am lost.

unknown 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Like I don't know what to do. So think it's a good one. It is structured, if it's planned, if I I mean, when I wake up, I have boom, boom, boom, boom. I am good. But all of a sudden, if I've got time, it's like I don't know what to do. Even though I have like 10 things to do, I go from three and it wasn't structured for me. So I'm really not getting anything done because it's just not structured.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

When as you say, outside of the classroom, like there was a meeting and then it was canceled, right? Other people would be, oh great, I have an hour. And I would feel like, oh my gosh. Now what? I I'm in an office space. I'm in, I go to a co-working place because yes, I could be at home. Yeah. But I'm not doing work. So I have to get up and go to someplace else and train my brain. Okay, I'm working here.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

My calendar and journal museum that I call it, you know, always buying a new one. This one's gonna do. And I finally let go of some of the guilt about that. And if I buy a calendar and I use it for three months and then I get bored with it and I find another one, who cares? You know, there's a lot of guilt in the ADHD world about how to keep buying these and then you don't use them or you don't use them for very long. Okay, I used for three months. It kept my life together. Yeah. Well, here's another pretty one.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Who cares? You know, this um, the ADHD brain is so interesting to me. Can you share some of your go-to strategies that help calm the chaos that's going on in our brains?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So things that really help me are sometimes just shutting down, letting myself just go somewhere quiet. Okay. With my dog or outside. I am a, you know, I live somewhere where it's easy to go outside a lot of the time. Just kind of getting outside can really help. Um, some of

Grief, Trauma and Neurodivergence

SPEAKER_01 37:24

the things that really helped me to get things done so that I really rely on are the pomodoro method and body doubling. Okay, what's that? Okay, so uh which one? Both of them? Yeah. Okay. So Pomodoro is this idea that you work for a certain amount of time and then you take a break. And the traditional is like 25 minutes. And there's there's apps or you just set a timer. Okay. So I work for 25 minutes and then I take a break. And I'll probably do that like twice, and then the third time I take a longer break. Okay. Really try to make myself get up, go to the bathroom, drink some water, get something to eat, move away. Um, and so I find it helpful in in many ways. It can be, okay, I'm working on this project and I'm gonna break it down into these little chunks. It can be, um, I don't want to do this thing, and it couldn't take me more than 10 minutes, but otherwise, all day staring at it. So I'm gonna do it in one pomo. And if I get done early, I've got extra time. Um I you may find you you have a lot of unread emails. Yes. I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna spend 25 minutes and I'm not gonna go through all of them. I'm gonna spend 25 minutes and I'm gonna go through emails and I'm done. There's a reverse pomodoro where you really, really don't want to do it. And so I say for 25 minutes, I'm gonna go do what I want, and then for five minutes, I'm just gonna do this thing. And then sometimes you find you can do more. And if you like, I looked at emails for five minutes. Okay. That's it. Um it I find it really helpful for me. And I know there's other people, and you can vary the time. Maybe you're really into something, it's longer. Maybe I'm just doing 10-minute chunks. My my brain is somewhere else, 10 minutes a break, 10 minutes a break. Body to body is like co-working, it's working with somebody else, but you're doing different things. So it's kind of like with little kids um parallel play, where and and it's really great on Zoom. That's one of the good things about Zoom. Um, is we can meet, and it works good with Pomodoro. Um, and I I have um bills to pay, and you have um, I I I don't know, a party to plan, I don't know, a chapter to write, whatever. And we take a minute and we say, Hey, and this is what I'm gonna do, and you tell me what you want to do, and then for 25 minutes, uh, we don't talk to each other, we go on mute and we do our little thing. Our brains see that each other's working, and we do it, and then we take a little break. And you can do it in person, you can do it on Zoom, you can even just go to a in a way if you go to a coffee shop and you're able to you know funnel out the background noise, it's it can work there too, is then okay. Your brain is like, oh, it's time to work. Okay. And so then that's why I like mixating in with the pomodoro. So it's like 25 minutes, and then okay, I can watch people or I can get on my phone and set the timer. Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, because we would lose track of time for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yes, yes. So those are some ways, and you can use them at home, you can use them at work. You know, you finally want to go take a walk for 25 minutes. I'm just 25 minutes, I'm just gonna take a walk, or whatever it is you want to do. Those are some things that I find really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

You touch on how uh long coaching programs can be overwhelming, but sometimes it's that quick win that builds momentum. Can you break down small changes that make a big difference in a client or in yourself?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Um, I think that sometimes we have a tendency to make really big projects, really grand ideas. And so if we can start narrowing them down into one thing, one task, one little goal for the next hour, the next week, whatever, then it's easier to get that done and not get lost in all the other details that you're trying to do. Okay. Um that's helpful. Um breaking things down and getting out of this big picture thing is I I think helpful. So the way I've learned to manage my time is as I mentioned, that it was hard since I had stopped teaching and being in an office, is I do what I call a three-day sprint. So each week, what's what's my little goal? And I spend three days, usually Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, working on that. And I figure out with everything else, how much time do I actually have those days, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

And then the last then I I throw in a CEO, I call this CEO adult day, because I hate. And then a relax and evaluate day. And so it's if I'm working on um this is good, something I'm creating, okay. I and it takes practice, right? You figuring out how long something takes, but one of the things is not to be hard on yourself. If I say, okay, I'm gonna write um no, a chapter, say Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I have four hours each day. My focus, my sprint, I'm doing a sprint, I'm writing this chapter. Now, things may come up and I'm not gonna be hard on myself, or I may get two chapters written. But at the end of the week, and I can look back and say, okay, yeah, okay, but then the dog got sick Tuesday and I lost some time, but that's okay. So then next week, this. Um, because telling because ADHD, you can have this tendency to say, I'm going to do it all now. I'm going to do this every day for the next month. And for me, this is a life. So really learning to break it down. Yeah, that's one way that I have found. I had based it on something I'd heard about where some people were doing like three weeks sprint and then one week off, and I'm like, that is not gonna happen. Yeah. Three days, you know, I can do something for three days.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah, you're talking, I think, about executive functioning. Yes. And you know, I have these really grand ideas, but to be able to act execute them, it's two different things. And you know, even just getting from A to B sometimes is big.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Yeah. So joke that I want to make a company that just comes up with ideas. Like sometimes I'll throw them out on social media. Media, here's a great idea. I'm not doing it. Somebody it's free.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

It's yours. I come up with ideas all the time. It even happens in my kitchen because like I'll watch these really great recipes and I'm like, I can do this. And I mean, you could. The execution isn't the same. Well, no.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

And then if you bought the groceries, then they all go bad. Yes, no. I I oh my gosh, this is crazy. Okay. It's like I wish the me that signed up for this or went shopping or agreed to do this is the me that's here today. Because they're two different people.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Right. Oh my gosh, yes. Okay. Another thing that you say is how do you manage ADHD from the inside out? So what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 44:51

So to me, that means not fully, but relying on yourself, knowing yourself, spending that time to figure out inside you, um, moving away from experts. We talked about you go to the doctor, and then they say, No, you don't have it. I've I've mentioned a few things that are not ADHD medicines, but depression medicines and outside things. Whereas for me, and it's it's hard. I don't have all the answers, but it's eating, remembering to eat and drink water and work my body and breathe and be nice to myself, be social, have connections, doing these things inside and accepting that my ADHD brain works different. But you know, this is a lifetime of unlearning and learning and trying. Another word I've been using a lot lately is experiments instead of goals or things like that. I'm I'm gonna do this as an experiment. I'm gonna try to go to a new independent bookstore once a week to see what that's like. And this is an experiment. And so it takes some of the pressure off. Not getting mad at myself, it's an experiment. I guess it didn't work. But the more we can kind of move away from outside people to not that they don't have information and sources and all kinds of things, but also getting into yourself and relying on yourself and really being there for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Yeah, I think that that's really, really important. Um, because we put ourselves on the back burner lots of times. Uh, we're one of the last ones that we think of. You know, I I went to your website and you were all about holistic. And I started jotting down the foods and different things like that that you were having on your website. You know, I would like to know more about this, the foods versus medication. Do you think the foods we eat make a difference in our ability to focus?

SPEAKER_01 46:50

I mean, I think they do. I mean, I noticed for myself, for so many things, it depends how you're eating. You know, I'm vegetarian, but you don't have to be. Right. But when I'm remembering to eat, when I'm being more mindful of my choices, it helps. Something I've started doing is deciding that, you know, we we can play all these diet games, all these, I should be eating this. I need 17 servings of vegetables a day. But what I've decided, and and I'm mostly keeping to it, is I'm eating

Supporting ADHD in Workplaces

SPEAKER_01 47:24

three what I call meals a day. And for me, a meal is a protein, a carb, some fat, and some fruit or vegetable. And it can be a huge, it can be like a little if I'm not hungry. Like it's an easy way to get, and this is just me in my mind, to get, oh, okay. I I did eat three. You know, maybe it was yogurt or vanilla and berries and whatever, or maybe it was actually, you know, your little food groups. Um, but I feel like that has given me a little freedom, and I'm much more likely to do that instead of these rules that at other times I might put on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

I just think that so many times doc the go-to is medicine. Yes. And I don't know. I I have three littles with autism and ADHD, and I they're on a lot of medications. And I would love to get them off. And, you know, food dyes and different things like that. I mean, I know that a lot of the things that we ingest contribute to our inability to do to change some of these behaviors, some of these things as focus. And just to be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Yeah. Right. I mean, I think that there's probably times when medication is appropriate. There may be, there may be not uh shortages of medication. Was it a couple years ago now? Or yeah. Okay, maybe you need that. Maybe you need glasses. Don't take my glasses from me. It's not going to be good when I'm driving. But also, what are other things? Do you do you find that when you get exercise, when you do these things, or stay away from alcohol or sugar or red dye, you feel better. And that's so much individual, and it can be hard to get information because so many doctors are just here, take this. Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

And sometimes it's after a very brief visit.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

It's just like, okay, and I think there's not enough discussion about what else it does to you, you know, why you're taking it, or I know we're not talking about like antidepressants right now, but what going off, the process of going off, what it does to you, is not for the weak at heart. Yeah. But and I don't think they talk about that. And with everything, okay, so there's good and there's bad. And maybe this medicine does, the good does override the bad.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Right. Now, I mean, let's talk about grief and traumas. You know, these things are inevitable. And you touched on it regarding your husband, and I am so sorry that that happened. Um, you know, we're you are a grief-informed neurodivergence specialist. Can you talk more about how these things in our life affect women with ADHD? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

So we know that with the ADHD, we uh we could be more emotional. We have emotional regulation, um, cognitive functioning, the executive functioning, all of those are a challenge. And then when you really look at it with grief and loss and anything from death, losing a job, maybe how you feel about what's going on in the world or something that's happened in your community, if you separate those out, those also impact how you feel emotionally and how you set things. And, you know, things like grief brain is, you know, not remembering things. Right. All of that. And so you push it together and everything kind of gets so much more. You know, explaining to my therapist and explaining to other people that I have trouble remembering things because of the ADHD. Now I have all this other stuff, and I have even more trouble remembering things. ADHD means managing life takes this much out of me, but oh, now there's a death or any any kind of big thing, whether you've lost your job, whatever, there are external things going on, right? You have to find a new job, or you have to make arrangements, or you have to do this. So you've got all of those things you have to do, and you've got all of life things that you have to do. And the ADHD makes that hard, and the grief makes that hard. And so giving yourself more support and finding people who can just give you grace and be like, yeah, that's a lot. Because back to as women, I should have this, I should have this. I and then the mask gets even bigger.

unknown 51:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Right. It does.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Yeah, and we try really hard to hold it together, but it's yeah, and like I mentioned briefly, like even finding out you have ADHD or autism can be bring on grief of this this is a huge life view change. It's not the word I'm looking for, but you know, like something has dramatically changed now. Just like I would imagine, if you get a cancer diagnosis or something is happening in your town, you know, you've lost your job. Um these are big life-altering things that impact you, and you have the ADHD, that impacts you.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah. I think that we internalize things pretty deeply. And we get stuck. It's hard to move on sometimes. I I know that I make myself move on. Uh my dad died when I was 11. And, you know, our life just picked up and moved on the next day. You know, not that we were in the grief, but I'm just saying, you know, my mom was a really good example of, okay, now I gotta get a job. Now I gotta do this. We just gotta keep going. And I think that that really helped me realize in the middle of grief or whatever, you know, there is a minute to sit in it or whatever we need to do, but we also need to figure it out. We have to figure it out. And but I've always been this person with autism and ADHD where I'm hurting a lot more than I'm showing.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

And I think that we can help ourselves by finding ways to let that out. You know, you said we deal with it, we could feel it in the moment, but then we need to move on. But like you probably know, it's not gone. It's still there for there's there's obvious reasons, anniversaries, things like that. There's just, I don't know what happened today, but it just hit me. And it's messing with our whole executive function and emotional everything even more.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Right. Well, you said that um in a quote, we don't need to be fixed, we need to be understood. And that hits me where I live. So can you unpack that statement? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

I mean, whether it's ADHD, autism, grief, anything like that, there's you're you're you and your life, your life events, and you don't need to be fixed and made neurotypical or a robot or an person. Yeah. I feel best when I feel like somebody sees me and they're like, Yeah. Either whether they've been through that or something like that or or nothing, but they have some empathy and they're like, Okay, I I see that. That's hard, not, oh, why aren't you over it yet? Oh, just do it. Oh, why don't you just go get on some meds? Do you do you have a therapist? You know, like those are all magical things that are gonna fix it like that. So I don't know that I need to be fixed. I would like to work with me better. And I would like people to work with me better, and I would like to work with other people better and have more compassion for because if you said I mean we're all going through something, I do not see you're alive right now without feeling grief about something in your life. And so just I I see you because unless it fakes me. I don't want you to tell me what to do unless I'm asking, you know. But like just see me.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

Right. Yeah, that's really good advice. So, what advice do you get have for workplaces, educators, or even families who want to better support someone with ADHD? One of the things I've been saying lately is just education, learn.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Listen, read books or articles or listen to podcasts. Just get some general information, open your mind and get some general information, and then also be open to talking to that person because Okay. Just like cancer hits or the flu hits people differently. ADHD autism, it hits you differently at different points in your life. So talk to me. Tell me what's going on with you, what's hard on you. I read that some people with ADHD have time with have trouble with emotion, emotional regulation. Tell talk to me about that. And so be open and talk to them. And and what do you struggle with and what makes that easier? You have to talk to it. Like if you if you have kids and you're struggling, or even within your relationship, maybe re-looking at the chores or the jobs or at work, the requirements. So these are the things that need to be done. And right now you're doing A, B, and C, and I'm doing D, E, and F. I had to stop for a minute. Um, but maybe like we switched out, like I really hate A, but I would do F. I'm like, okay. You know, we can do that. Is there something at work? Do you just need a quieter space? Do you need instruction? Do you need to be reminded to bring a notebook so that when somebody's telling you some things to do, you can write them down because otherwise, just like names, they're in and it's out. And listening, and you know, for doctors for everybody, you probably really don't know that much about it. And also asking people, like, what do you want me to know? Oh, and what would you like me to know about you and your autism and how that's going right now? What would you like me to know? And so I think things like that and just learning more.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

You know, if it's even a small organization or workplace environment, I guess you could put it out there. You know, I was just thinking of this while you were talking because our conversation has really helped me even understand myself better and be validated. So just, you know, hey, is there other people out there that are neurodivergent? And maybe we can

Finding Resources and Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 58:01

all come together, uh, people that are typical and neurodivergent, and be able to sit and talk together within the workplace, maybe just, you know, uh one hour and get to know each other and see how we can help you and how you can help us, and you know, maybe something like that, and just really be open. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

I I've I've worked with people, they have come to me, they have not come through their employer, but who have been struggling with things at work. And and we've worked through what is your boss saying and what are you saying, and how is this a struggle and what can you do? But also some workplaces may, I know they hire executive coaches for people. They may be interested in, oh yeah, you've either told me you have ADHD or this seems to be a thing, and we're willing to invest a little bit of money in having some coaching sessions to help figure out better ways to be successful, given the way you are, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:58

What you need, you know, as some I've wondered this uh for having autism and ADHD, and everybody's different maybe in how they're gonna handle this, but I was just curious. Do you go into a job interview letting them know, or do you slay the interview because you practiced and practiced, like I often do, going into something like that, and then slay the initial job requirements and then slowly let them know?

SPEAKER_01 59:26

So that's gonna be a personal decision. I think it's gonna have to do probably with where you are, um, the place you're at, how much they're following IDEA and and you know, some of the laws. I mean, it can go both ways. Uh you could bring it up in ways less of say, I mean, you can say you have ADHD. That's perfectly fine, and then be able to talk about it. Um, these are the things that I do well. But that's that's a hard one that that really is, and I think that's really individualized. And I wouldn't want to tell somebody just what to do. I know some of that then would probably go through HR, if like if you're really asking for accommodations. Um another way is really considering what you need and where you work well, and making sure in that interview and asking questions that would give you then answers that say, yes, this is the kind of place that operates in this way, and I might be successful here. Or no, I I walk around and and everyone's in this open area and it's really noisy, and I know that's just not gonna work. That's good. You know, kind of that self-inquiry, like, what do I do well? What do I need help with? And what are questions I could ask, and little spidey senses I could come up with to see if, hmm, is this really the fit instead of because what you're talking about, and I do it too, is putting on that mask, going into the interview, presenting how you think they want you to be, and then having to show up like that versus this is who I am, and I want a job that fits that. Now that means you have to be able to be picky with a job and and those sorts of things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

You had a really good point in that it's also an interview for yourself with them in knowing if this is a good fit, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

I want to make you like me or friend, I want to make you like me without. Wait, do I like you?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's an interesting point because I'm always so busy trying to impress to get them to like me, that you know, it's interesting to go into it looking around and saying, does this fit who I am? Yeah. What what would you say to a woman that's might be listening right now who's undiagnosed, overwhelmed, maybe she's gone to places and she's getting that no. I mean, but she's sitting there saying, you know what, maybe this is me, like you did when you started relating with your uh student. You know, what do you say to somebody who is listening right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Um, I'd say believe in yourself. I would say start doing some looking and figuring out what you do well and keep working on that, figuring out things that you need some help with. Think about right now, does having this diagnosis really matter to me right now? Because you can say, right now I'm not ready to do it to fight for this. And you can change your mind and do it later. But kind of figuring out what you're hoping to get out of it, how important that piece of paper, that official diagnosis is for you, and in the meantime, or instead, what are ways you can start learning and doing some things? Maybe just coaching, maybe listening to other people, maybe uh reading some books or podcast, listening to some podcasts and just getting some information, maybe tabling it for a little while, or or what's one thing you struggle with? What's really hard right now that you think is related to the ADHD? And how can you get some help to work on that? Either flat out asking someone to do something for you, if going grocery shopping is overwhelming and too much, hiring or finding or trading with somebody else to do it, or learning a skill or learning more about yourself and what really works for you, because people will say, My my sister has ADHD and she does this. Well, that doesn't mean it's gonna work for you. You can try it, but it might not. So if you're really having trouble, trouble getting through to doctors and deciding how important that is for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

You offer a lot of services too, and you have a free guide for people with ADHD who are ready to reclaim their life you have on your website. Can you talk about what's inside and how it can help? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

So one of the first things is some 30 quick and easy hacks, and it just spells out some things that you could do that, you know, sometimes when we're overwhelmed, we have a hard time thinking about it. You know, whether it's taking five minutes to just do a task, whether it's deleting five emails that are just in your way, but breaking things down into something small that you can do and feel some success. A lot of it can be just these really little small, subtle shifts that you can make in your thinking or taking five minutes to do something that if you allow yourself, it can build success. We're not gonna take on everything and change everything overnight. And we don't even need to change a lot of it. Maybe we need to change how we look at it a little bit, what we do, how we relate to people about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

It really is can be about those small wins. I I really think because we can get overwhelmed with with big. That's how I operate. What can I do today? And I try actually not to even look further than that, because then it gets just it just gets too big.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Oh, I I get it. I plan out the whole rest of the year of all this stuff, and and that's kind of its own activity, is just planning, following through is a different story.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

Let's talk about your upcoming book. If you can, I mean, you do have an upcoming book. What inspired you to write this book and what can readers expect?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

So the book that I'm working on that is about ADHD, holistic hacks for women with ADHD and looking at women in ADHD, ways that you can manage it, ways that you can work on it with yourself. You can expect being able to walk through some steps, learn more about yourself, and really kind of go into yourself and figuring out what your goals are, your needs are, hearing about how some other women have done it, getting some basically support in community in doing that. Um, I also have um a card deck I've created that's something that you can carry with you. So a book is bigger, something small, and have Some little scenarios and just real quick wins that you can use. Um I love that. Yes. So that's gonna be on the website. And the big book is is a great thing, it's it's a big project, but I'm also looking at then in like smaller things, realizing that at least for me, I know bookshelf of big ADHD books, and I read some of it. Here's something smaller on a struggle you're having right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

You know, I like the social stories aspect of it too, because like you know, I'll even go to a store and I'll be in the checkout, you know, and I'll have the scenario through my head, what I'm supposed to do, how I'm supposed to act, what I'm supposed to say. So I mean, those kind of social stories are really important to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

So the cardiac is here's the little social story, a little bit about what's going on, so you understand, and then here, here's a couple of real quick things you could do right now. You know, you you're at work and you're thought you did this project right and your boss is now upset with you. Well, so ADHD wise, this is what's going on, and here's a couple of things. Here's something now I can do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

And you're holding on to it. I mean, you can visually see it, so you can just go ahead and do exactly what it says. I think that's perfect. Yeah. There's room for everything. So, can you talk about the other services that you offer because you speak and some other things? Coaching.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

And I'm moving much more towards shorter blocks. Again, like I talked about working on specific goals, a specific, this is what I really want to work on. Um, and then we can continue. We want to keep working on it. I find that that helps because you've either picked something very important, like my boss is saying this or my partner is saying this, or some little thing that you want to change and you're seeing success in doing that. So I like to do coaching with that. I'm going to start offering, and I haven't figured out the logistics, but like I was talking about, the three three-day sprint for me is so powerful. Uh, figuring different ways to offer that to support people in that. Okay. I also do some consulting, trying to figure out I could do some teaching for um HR, I doctors, uh therapists, that kind of stuff, going in, and here is some up-to-date information and how to use it with your patients. If you're a therapist, what do you need to know about the ADHD brain, the female ADHD brain to come with what you've got this great knowledge here, but there's a little hole. So let's see if we can fill it like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

You really offer so much. How can people get a hold of you? Um, what's your website?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

Uh, it's adholistically.com. Um, I'm also on Instagram and threads, and I'm starting up. I'm not sure when this is coming out, but um uh on Substeck, really being able to write and just share, share, share, share. I'm on it. Little subtle things. Um, so you can reach out to me on the website, DM me on those platforms. Uh, there's an email link on the website. And if there's something that you need, you know, let's talk. You know, one of the things with ADHD is I like to have all these different ideas, and I'm finding this is allowing me to do different creative projects that are creative for me. Maybe you want something presented at your your meeting or anything that you have like that, and also starting to go out then with the card deck and the little books to to bookshops and just little community things because I like little community talking.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

I like those kind of events. You know, that you know, connection is really hard for people like us. And so that's really great to have these kind of things because we meet so many different people that we wouldn't have met any other way. And like we wouldn't have met. And I think that that's uh so important and having conversations and getting to know other people that are neurodivergent and things like that. I mean, it really builds a community. I think this is so important. I agree. We don't have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

No, no, not at all, and we have been.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

Yeah, we we really do think that we have to, especially women. So I love that you've built this because you really are building a community. Now, just for fun, this is the last question, but what's one? Because you know what? ADHD and autism, any kind of neurodivergence can also be a positive. You know, I I love who I am, and I really wouldn't change me. But what superpower would you say that you have that you wouldn't trade for anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

My creative brain, the way that when I get off on something, I can just come up with so many ideas, and then if I'm with somebody who is accepting of that, you know, it it's fun just getting in there, exploring, coming up with all the ideas. Like I said, I want to have a business where I just give people ideas.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

Well, you know, there's a lot going on up here. There's a lot going on up there. There really is. And so that's so interesting because it does come out in a lot of creative ways. And if we can tap into that, I mean, that is so important. And you know, sometimes just doing things like this, and somebody can ask a question, and that is the landing place that I needed for me to execute the next spot, you know. So that's really important too, is just being able to have that conversation, and it really can lead you to the next point in the map. Yeah, completely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Jennifer. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insight and your story, your proof that it's never too late to understand your brain and unlock your life. Remember, there is always purpose in the pain and hope in the journey here. We always turn pain into purpose, and that's exactly what we did today. Go to Dr. Jennifer's website and share this with anyone who might need her guidance, grab her free guide, check out ADHD holistically, and remember there is no normal, only what works for you. Take care of you, take care of your brain, and as usual, we will see you next time.