Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
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I am Anne.
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Today's conversation is about something deeply human: memory, identity, and what happens when parts of our past become locked away inside of us.
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My guest today is Mario Cartaya, author of the memoir Journey Back into the Vault in Search of My Faved Cuban childhood footprints.
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Journey Back into the Vault is a deeply personal memoir about a Cuban-born American who returns to his homeland after more than half a century in search of the childhood memories he lost when his family fled the country during political upheaval.
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Mario was born in Havana in 1951 and spent part of his childhood in Cuba before his family was forced to leave and start a new life in the United States.
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That sudden separation from his homeland and extended family left a lasting emotional impact.
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And over time, many of his earliest memories faded from consciousness almost as if they had been locked away inside a psychological vault.
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Imagine leaving everything that you knew before you were even old enough to understand what was happening.
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Your home, your language, your culture, your memories.
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Mario spent decades building a life in America, but something fascinating happened along the way.
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The memories of his earliest childhood years became buried somewhere deep inside his mind.
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Then more than half a century later, he returned to Cuba 56 years later, not as a tourist, but as a man searching for something hidden inside himself.
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His journey back became more than a physical trip.
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It became a search for identity, belonging, and the pieces of his childhood that had been buried by time and circumstance.
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Mario began to recover the memories and feelings that had been hidden for decades.
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It's a story about exile and ultimately finding peace with the child you once were.
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Mario, thank you so much for being here today.
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And thank you so much for having me here and for this wonderful interview.
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You know, I want to start at the beginning because you were born in Havana in 1951 and you spent the first years of your life there when all the political upheaval was going on and your family was forced to leave.
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For listeners who may not know that history, and I mean, actually, your father's life was being threatened.
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Can you paint a picture for us of what exactly was going on?
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Well, I I grew up in a middle class family, and in my home, everyone had a college education, and both sides uh would favor a different part of uh their education, right?
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I being my Mateo side, they were all very artistic, uh musical, art drawing, that kind of a thing.
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And I grew up with them.
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I grew up with them playing their instruments.
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My mother was a classical pianist, so she would always play the piano and and as they played, we talked.
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Uh, the other half of my family, my Cartaya side, um, my paternal side was was more accountants and money and this type of thing.
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Um, so I I grew up in a nice combination of right side and left brain, um, where I it was wonderful for my education.
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Everything was wonderful.
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We lived in a big home uh where uh I lived with my grandparents and my uncles.
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It's an old Spanish uh way of living where the family, the extended family, lives together and you're with them your whole life, right?
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You become uh a child to many adults, uh their own child, right?
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So it's a wonderful way of learning, a wonderful way of uh of loving, a wonderful way of uh knowing that you belong to something greater than yourself.
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Everything changed.
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Um when Castro came to power uh a year later, uh he made the announcement that they were going to confiscate all American properties on the island.
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My father, who was an accountant, his clients were all American.
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Uh Frigid Air Corporation, the Sylvania uh group, Emerson, they were all his clients.
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So sooner rather than later, three uh machine gun toting rebels entered office demanding his um ledgers with all the information on his client, his American client's properties in the island.
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Oh my.
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My father, uh, out of loyalty refused.
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So he was detained.
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In his detention, he refused a second time, and they took him to go see the infamous Che Guevara, uh, the uh Argentinian Kerrilla warfighter that was trying to bring communism to South America, who lived in Cuba during those first years of Castro's uh revolution.
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Uh and my father denied Guevara.
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Well, you didn't do that back then.
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So Guevara, furious with my my father, drew his gun and said, Ignacio, that was my father's name.
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I know that you have two kids.
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Uh don't make me use this.
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And he showed him the gun and I said, Give me what I want.
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So, with that, thankfully, he also had a friend, uh a lieutenant, they were friends since kindergarten.
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They grew up together.
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He stood between my father and Guevara and said, Shay, hang on, I know Ignacio, little bullheaded, but give me until noon, and I promise I can get you uh his ledger.
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So he did.
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He went with my dad, my dad gave the ledgers, and when they brought it back to Guevara, Guevara's last words to my father was, uh, you're you're now uh labeled um anti-revolutionary.
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If I were you, I would leave the island as quickly as you can, because I can't guarantee your future safety.
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And so we thought that he was dead.
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He was gone for about three days, and back then, if you disappeared, yeah, three days, you were usually dead.
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This is 1960.
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So he finally calls and says, I'm coming home.
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The whole family got together, and then I watched him from the second floor balcony of my home as he asked my extended family for permission to leave Cuba with my mother, my brother, and me.
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I imagine an eight-year-old boy happy that his father is home, now having heard that they were gonna kill him.
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And that's why he gave him the ledgers, and that's why we had to leave.
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Um and so that day my my life changed.
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I knew that my time in Cuba was coming to an end, and I knew that I would have to then travel to the U.S., which was exciting too.
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I mean, the U.S.
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was the home of Mighty Mouse and Major League Baseball and hot dogs and all this wonderful thing, cowboys and Indians.
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So it wasn't that bad leaving, except once you leave and you never see your extended family again, the grandparents, the uncles that I grew up with, they all died and we never saw them again.
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Yeah.
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Then it becomes a trauma.
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Oh my goodness.
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How horrific.
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I mean, in one second you're here, and in the next second, you're here.
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I mean, and and then what was so unique about your story is that you much of your life, those early years, were completely hidden from you.
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I mean, you couldn't remember anything before your 10th birthday.
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Before this journey back to Cuba, how did you piece your life together?
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Were those early years something that you understood through stories your family told you?
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Photographs, fragments, or was it mostly like just a blank space?
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It's kind of an interesting mix of everything, right?
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My parents grew up uh telling us stories, and you know, we we had a wonderful family of conversation.
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We love to talk to each other and express each other's and communicate that way, right?
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Okay, yeah.
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And so I knew some stories, and then we had some pictures that we took with us when we left.
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So I knew some still black and white pictures.
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So at night sometimes I would see those pictures, but I didn't know the context.
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And I would wake up in the middle of the night, you know, kind of like um flustered because I knew that I saw that picture for a reason in my in my dreams, but I didn't know why.
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It's funny.
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Even during sleeping, uh my subconscious was controlling my mind.
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So uh finally, after um a a wonderful uh award that I received where they flew a flag uh in the US Congress in my honor, or over the Capitol, over over the US Capitol and my honor, I couldn't remember how I got from there to that point.
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And that's when I decided it's time for me to go back and try to remember.
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Try to know who trying to know not just who I became, that I knew.
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I knew I'd come here and I've become a a renowned architect.
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What I didn't know was what was the whole story?
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Why why act the way I do?
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Why do I feel the way I do?
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All those things that that shape the way you are when you're young.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that is such an important piece.
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I mean, everybody needs that in order to figure out who you are.
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I I mean, I it I think that you do.
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You left Cuba.
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Was the part of your life from going from Cuba and landing in the United States?
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I mean, you painted it as this wonderful place coming to the United States.
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But was that blank too when you got here?
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Or when did your memories actually begin?
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I had very few memories.
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Um, but I think that they did not disappear as I was flying uh to come here.
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I think they disappeared slowly as some of these memories tormented me.
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You know, back then, uh in 1960, there was no communication with Cuba.
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And in the years that followed, with the Bay of Pigs and the Cuba Missile Crisis and everything else that happened, there was no telephone uh uh combinations that you could somehow get in touch with your family there.
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There was no letters.
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The letters that we would receive were many times redacted, many times cut out with scissors, you know, places.
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So it was very minimal information, if any, that we were getting about the family we left behind, except through telegraphs.
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And the telegraphs were limited to eight letters.
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So we will get things like your grandfather died.
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That's it.
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And you don't know how or when or whatever.
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So it was very, very difficult to see your family go one after another after another after another.
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And by 1968, eight years after I got here, all of my grand my grandparents and even my uncle were over.
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And I think during that process of grieving and and the frustrations of not being able to get in touch with them, the impotence, the impotence of not being able to do anything about it.
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Not even to call them and tell them you love them, I think that that little that little descent is what finally turned off the uh subconscious to allow me to concentrate and then become, you know, the best that I possibly could be, the best version of myself.
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Yeah.
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I mean, the mind is kind, really.
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I mean, it it can protect us from our own pain.
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And it sounds like that's what it was doing.
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Can I ask you how this has shaped you into the person that you became?
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That's a great question, right?
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Um, I became a well-known architect.
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And why that happened, I think that in my subconscious as well, not almost, but in the subconscious that I grew up with, not having my grandparents with me, not having my uncles with me, uh made me want to prove to them that everything that they used to tell me when I was growing up was true.
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And I think that without knowing it, uh, I pushed myself for them.
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Okay.
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And I never accepted mediocracy, I never accepted anything that wasn't just, you know, the very best.
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Uh I guess to to make it right, to make them know, wherever they were, that yeah, all the effects that they had on me uh made me into this person that I am.
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That was, I think, the big incentives uh that I had without even knowing uh what I was doing.
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Uh going back, however, is what really, really made a big difference on me.
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And we're we're absolutely going to get to that part of this story, but I want to ask you, you know, as a young immigrant arriving in Florida, did you ever feel like you were stuck between two worlds?
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Like, did you ever feel a part of either one, or were you like stuck in the middle?
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I felt that way my whole life.
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Really?
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Except after coming back.
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Okay.
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Because there was a part of me that couldn't remember, and that part had a play in me, but not a conscious play.
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So there was always that.
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I was the kid that um I was friends with everybody.
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So I had American friends, okay.
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I played football, I, you know, I was a good student, I played baseball, you know.
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Uh I was that guy.
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I'm always wanting to prove that I belonged, always wanting to prove that I was worthy of having this uh accolades that I grew up getting from the teachers, from my friends, and and that kind of a thing.
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Um I will tell you a really funny story, right?
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Okay.
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I I knew about American culture a little because my some of my father's clients, when they would travel to Cuba to have meetings with my dad, they would always come home.
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Uh, and my mother and this other lady that helped us would always cook them a good Cuban meal.
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And they always wanted to get their business over with so they could come over and enjoy a good meal with us, with a family, right?
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And uh to me, the Americans that came over being little uh were not Americans.
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They were Cubans that spoke English.
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It was it was that kind of a view from a child.
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I saw no difference.
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The school that I went to, the Edison Institute, um, was a prep school, and they taught a little English, just enough to get by, you know, which helped me when I first came here.
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At least I knew some basic words uh that would either get me out of trouble or get me in trouble, you know, depending on the context that I used to.
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Right.
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I learned uh I learned that very, very soon.
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Um but one one fun one funny story, right?
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So we leave Cuba, the plane lands here.
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It's still like 10 o'clock in the morning by the time the plane lands, and that afternoon I figured I'm gonna go for a walk.
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I'm in America, I'm in Miami, I'm gonna go for a walk and see what America looks like.
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Really, I'm hoping it's gonna snow.
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It was November.
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I'm hoping it's gonna snow, there was no snow.
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But I went for a walk.
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And I began seeing that in front of everybody's homes, there are ghosts and there are monsters and there's people with knives in their heads, that kind of thing.
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And I got scared.
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To my dad, and I said, Um, do they practice voodoo in the United States?
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And he's like, No, no, they don't do voodoo.
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Uh why?
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And I told him why.
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And he goes, Oh, Mario, it was uh Halloween two weeks ago.
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And these are people that haven't picked up the stuff they had in their front yards.
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And they displayed ghosts and monsters and devils and this.
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Yeah, yeah, but it's it's all in fun because they'll get they'll give you candy.
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Can we go out tonight?
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Oh no, no, no, no.
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Thanksgiving is all.
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So that was my first my first understanding of the American people was that.
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Oh my gosh, that's oh, that's hilarious.
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Yeah, I know.
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I know it was funny.
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Funny story.
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Yeah, that is really interesting.
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I mean, you guys didn't celebrate Halloween over there.
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No, no idea.
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Oh my gosh.
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I I I wanted to ask you about your parents because you know, when you look back now as an adult, did you have conversations with your parents?
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Did they carry all of this quietly?
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Do you know what the moment was like for them having to leave?
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Oh, very, very difficult.
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And uh when my grandfather was dying, um, my dad asked me never to cry in front of my mother because she was distraught, right?
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Imagine losing your parents, never seeing them again, you know, your uncles, the aunts, everybody that we left behind little by little, every year somebody would die, and it was just like a constant drip of death.
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So I I know that it was tough for her, but what my mom did uh to kind of help herself was play the piano.
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You know it even here, we were able to buy a used piano that she could play in, and it helped everyone because she would play her music, and um, they would bring the friends that they were making in the U.S.
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They couldn't afford to go out anywhere.
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You know, we were trying to start again.
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So they would invite him to the house, and my mother would play and they would all sing or dance or whatever.
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And it was a very healthy way to grow like that.
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You know, yes, there are troubles, but it's okay.
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You know, we will get by.
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And and this one time, uh, my mom looked at me and I was kind of sad, and and she said, uh, Mayito, that means Little Mario, uh, don't feel that way.
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As long as we're together, everything is gonna be okay.
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Those are words that have come back to me thousands of times.
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And I love it.
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No matter what, as long as we're together, it's gonna be okay.
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We're here for each other, we're here to help each other, and that's exactly the way that it was.
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It was beautiful, uh difficult, yes, painful, yes, but also beautiful.
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It is very beautiful.
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That what I I want to say that to my kids now.
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You know, I mean that's just it just uh brings a connection that can't be divided.
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It it can't be, no matter what.
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What did it do for you to realize what your parents sacrificed?
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Well, I I I I've been speaking a lot for years, you know, with my architecture and all these award ceremonies.
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Uh, they always ask me to speak, and I always tell them that um I dedicated my life to them to show them that their effort of coming here was worth it.
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It's not about me so much as it is having to prove that everything that happened uh led to these accomplishments and this great life that I have lived.
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That's uh probably the the biggest impact uh that anything has ever had in my life.
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I I know why I'm here, I know the challenges they faced, I know the hardships and pain that they felt that they felt, but yet they always made it seem like tomorrow was gonna be better than today.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.799
They always lived with an optimism.
00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.559
But hey, as long as we're together, it'll be fine.
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.759
And it was, it was for all of us.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.000
I love this because it really is all about perspective, isn't it?
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:43.920
It really is.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:54.000
I mean, we all we go through such hard times, but it is it sounds like your parents were so strong, and then they passed that down to you.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.200
What a gift!
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.160
Yes.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.759
The title of your book, Journey Back into the Vault.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.880
Is such a powerful metaphor.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:06.480
I mean, it suggests the memories weren't gone.
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:09.519
You know, I mean, they were just simply locked away.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:17.759
And when you decided to return to Cuba after 56 years, what made you feel ready to open that vault?
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:25.759
I was part of the committee that assisted President Obama in his reproachment return to Cuba.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:26.319
Okay.
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:31.440
I met with uh the person that was in charge of that committee was John Kerry.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:35.680
And John Kerry and I kind of struck up a nice friendship.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:45.440
And we had a lot of conversations about him going back to Vietnam after the Vietnam War and making peace with Vietnam's generals.