Dec. 24, 2025

Rethinking Possible, When Life Throws Curveballs, Build a Batting Cage

Send us a text Some stories don’t fit inside neat arcs. Rebecca Galli’s life holds a brother gone at 17, a son who passed at 15, two children with special needs, and sudden paralysis nine days after divorce. What unfolds is not a list of tragedies but a blueprint for living when certainty disappears: short morning rituals that steady the mind, phrases that reframe pain, and a practice of choosing the next right step even when the path splits. We dig into parallel paths, a therapist’s tool th...

Send us a text

Some stories don’t fit inside neat arcs. Rebecca Galli’s life holds a brother gone at 17, a son who passed at 15, two children with special needs, and sudden paralysis nine days after divorce. What unfolds is not a list of tragedies but a blueprint for living when certainty disappears: short morning rituals that steady the mind, phrases that reframe pain, and a practice of choosing the next right step even when the path splits.

We dig into parallel paths, a therapist’s tool that changed everything. Instead of waiting for clarity, Rebecca plans two futures at once—the hope path and the reality path—so she keeps moving whether life opens or closes. That motion shows up everywhere: in how she shifted from why to how after hard news, in how she built a support boat that changed over time, and in how she tracks the power of better by noticing one small improvement each day. Her father’s wisdom—let your love be larger, you will always walk with a limp, but you will walk—becomes a way to honor wounds without being defined by them.

Rebecca also turns personal need into public good. A yellow flyer about ABA in Madison’s backpack leads to Pathfinders for Autism, a resource that now serves tens of thousands with training, sensory-friendly events, and a searchable database for families. Acceptance doesn’t mean shrinking your life; it can free you to build a new one. When therapy no longer promised walking, she made a “big toe moment” decision to stop, then poured that time into candlelit dinners, playlists, and presence with her kids. Humor keeps showing up too—snow angels in a wheelchair, van mishaps ending in tears of laughter—proof that joy can coexist with grief.

If you’re navigating caregiver burnout, special needs parenting, grief, or abrupt change, you’ll leave with practical tools: start mornings with intention, plan in parallel, assess your capacity, curate your crew, and let love be larger than the storm. Subscribe, share this conversation with someone who needs it, and tell us the line you’ll carry into tomorrow.

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Chapters

00:08 - Meet Rebecca Galli

01:09 - Framing A Life Of Loss And Love

06:09 - Forrest’s Last Words And Meaning

12:45 - Morning Rituals And Daily Readers

15:46 - Niagara Falls Moments And Shock Absorbers

20:35 - Who’s In Your Boat

26:04 - Holding Gratitude With Grief

31:01 - Loneliness, Capacity, And Community

36:24 - Let Love Be Larger

41:46 - Struck Not Stuck: Power Of Better

47:04 - Madison’s Autism And ABA

51:30 - Founding Pathfinders For Autism

58:24 - Parallel Paths And The Big Toe Moment

Transcript

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Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.

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I am Anne, and today we have one of the most incredible voices that we have had on the podcast.

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Rebecca Gallay is a best-selling author and a columnist of over 400 columns.

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She has written two books, Rethinking Possible, A Memoir of Resilience, and a daily inspirational book, Morning Fuel.

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Rebecca, I have read every single word of your first book, Rethinking Possible, and I'm following along in your daily inspirational book, Morning Fuel.

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I have read a lot of books and I have met a lot of people.

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I can honestly say, the more I have read about your story and learned about who you are as a person, I am so honored to meet you and to have you on.

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Thank you so much.

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A pleasure to be able to connect with you.

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I know this took us a while to get this arranged, and I'm honored to be on your show.

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Thank you.

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Well, I want to talk about your story from Rethinking Possible while we talk about Morning Fuel because the wisdom on the papers in your inspirational book is earned.

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Every single page to put a list of what you have gone through does not do it justice.

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And you have to read your story.

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And I'm encouraging all of our listeners to pick up both books.

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At the beginning of Morning Fuel, which by the way, I start with my Starbucks too.

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And I love my Starbucks.

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And your words speak to me.

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And your dad was right.

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Writing is a gift that you have been you have picked up from him, probably.

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I mean, he was a man of words.

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I would love to talk about the words from your dad, your mom, your brother, and you in the podcast.

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You started your inspirational book with these words.

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Some would say, Life has not been kind to me.

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I lost my 17-year-old brother, and his name was Forrest.

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Two of my four children had special needs.

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One of my two sons died at age 15, and his name was Matthew.

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And at 38, nine days after my divorce was finalized, I was paralyzed by transverse myelitis, if I'm saying that right.

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A rare, a rare inflammation of the spinal cord that affects one in a million.

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And it's been hard to power through and live fully in this life.

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I did not choose.

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But I've learned that how I start my day sets the tone for how I get through the day.

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You know, who I thought about when I was reading these.

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And I'm gonna just say this before I ask any questions, because as I read that, I thought about your mom sitting in the kitchen, you know, sitting there with you, drinking coffee and just giving you her wisdom.

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I thought about your dad and him standing up there at the pulpit and his words of wisdom.

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And I thought about Forrest and his last words, and you know what that might have must have meant.

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I saw your sister sister Rachel's arms holding you up in the bathroom, you know, and I just was laughing.

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And I saw your strength, a strength I've not seen before.

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I saw your kids, I saw your son Peter, reflecting on life, I saw your daughter Britney's heart, I saw Madison's autism flare for life, which I'm autistic, and three of my kids are autistic, so I absolutely appreciate her story.

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And I saw Matthew's beautiful eyes looking up at you, you know, with his, you know, beautiful brown eyes, and even though that he was medically fragile.

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And, you know, I just saw everything in your life right there on the pages in these books.

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And I also saw our stories, you know, everybody's stories right there on the pages.

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And that was what's was so beautiful about it, because, you know, you are more than a million.

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I think every family has a piece of your story.

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Your pain is so deep, but yet you live each day with intention, positivity, and incredible gratitude, which is what you say.

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But everybody understands what it's like to take care of a child or to have a hurt or to have a loss or a death or somebody that you know your child is really having a hard time.

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And you're having a hard time being able to get to them or take care of their needs.

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And I think every single one of us can relate.

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So thank you so much for writing this.

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Well, it was therapeutic.

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It was part of the journey, really, something I started early on, just the power of lassoing those thoughts and putting them down so they don't just bother you all the time.

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So it's uh it's it's been a therapeutic journey through writing and then now connecting with people.

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It's amazing how that's helped me connect to others.

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Yeah, I bet.

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I mean, yeah, you get to help yourself while helping them, and your story really does help other people.

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You know, your dad once said, your dad's words, I'll tell you what, what is planned is possible.

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And I love your title because rethinking possible, it's so perfect.

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Because the only thing that seemed to go your way was that you had four kids.

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The rest of your life took twists and turns that you had no control over, and you were living a life that just was.

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You had to be and figure it out as life just happened.

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But throughout both books, your family's words, your words, I think were lifelines.

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Your brother had beautiful words that he said before he passed away at age 17.

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Could you share what those words were and how that helped you, helped carry you in your life?

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Yeah.

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So my brother was 17.

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I mean, he was that kid.

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He was president of the student uh body, he was uh musician, he was a church leader, he was an athlete.

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Um, he had great plans to go to White Forest University, get into politics, become a senator, lawyer, you know, all this.

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And he was definitely doing that thing, what's planned as possible.

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And we grew up with that mantra.

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And one of the last things that he did before he went water skiing, which is where he had his accent, um, was to write his uh essay to Wake Forest University.

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And one of the last questions they asked was, you know, tell us about your family.

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And he did.

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And he expressed um his contentment with the family, but his last words of that essay, and they wound up being his last written words, were I would change nothing.

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And uh it uh still gets up.

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You know, it if if he only lived 17 years, I would still write that and as a sister see him live that.

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Yeah.

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What an accomplishment, even in 17 years.

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Right.

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It's always been a challenge to me, you know, before I lay my pillow, my head on my pillow, and you know, is there anything I regret today?

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I would change nothing.

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Can I say that about the day?

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Um, so it's really been something really precious that he left us with.

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Yeah, a lot of people don't get something like that.

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And to know that that's how we felt, that that's just so beautiful.

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I mean, it was like it was meant to be.

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Yes, I hate to, and there's a part of of the book, The Rethinking Possible, where I get really angry about those words because they weren't the words I would have chosen.

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I would have changed so many things of the the day that we lost if, you know, he wasn't looking where he was going or he was distracted, or you know, all of the things I would have changed.

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So it's an interesting um study in the emotions that happen around loss, you know, where there's this mixed things.

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I'm glad he was content, but I'm so, yeah, it's it was it was just so much to absorb that I'd lost him like that.

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So it was it's it's been still even a tough loss now.

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There's uh I read that section when I do some book talks, and and I'll give myself a high five if I get through that without without crying.

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Um, but um yeah, some profound words for a 17-year-old.

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And I think that's normal for us when there's a loss lots of times, and it and it's something like that, you know, where it's like, well, if I just would have been there at this time, if I just would have said something before they went that way or whatever, you know.

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I mean, um, survivor's guilt is a real thing.

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Yes.

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I like waking up and looking at words like yours in the morning because I think that it's really important.

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It helps us get outside of our head, it helps us, you know, start our day correctly for myself.

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I mean, how important is it for you or for other people why you wrote in this inspiring book for them to wake up and want to go to it and pick it up and say, you know what, this is where I want to start my day every morning.

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And even if they just need to pick me up during the day.

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Yeah, I it uh it's it was a practice of mine after I wrote the first book.

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Uh, a lot of the questions I would get would be, you know, how do you do it?

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How do we keep going?

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And one of the things I do every morning is pick from several daily readers and have that with my coffee, you know, and I I journal a little bit, I uh read some more, I do some reflection, and I really try to start it on the most positive way possible.

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So uh when it came time for my second book, I said, why don't I write what I read every day?

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So I found it to be helpful to myself uh just to to start off uh with it with a positive note, and then sometimes I don't get to it first time, you know, first uh thing in the morning, but it's a good power boost, you know, just sometimes I think we get so caught up in uh it could be just busyness or even they start sliding downhill a little bit, and this uh provides kind of a distraction, uh separation from whatever's going on, so that you can kind of pull yourself back, regroup, and maybe get a different thought in your mind.

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Yeah, and they're short, you know.

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So I mean, it's super nice to be able to just pick it up and be able to go take your thoughts in a different direction.

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I mean, it really does help.

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Thank you.

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Now, can you talk a little bit because your life, I mean, it it went on a pretty rough course, and it's not the life that you really do plan.

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So, can you talk a little bit about that real life, the kind that takes us down Niagara Falls when we are not looking and you know we have no boat and it just takes us down and we're trying to find our way to the surface and take a breath?

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Well, it's um I like to say that um when I'm at my best, I have really big shock absorbers, you know, that whatever bump is coming along that I've uh enlarged my group of friends, enlarged my plans so that I'm not trapped to one single way of getting through something.

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Uh I think just rethinking possible cycle that I talk about sometimes is that you just you have to accept the situation, whatever it is, uh up front, that you have to realize that I'm in a place I didn't plan.

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And um then I think the next step is to be very honest about what's your capability to deal with the situation.

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Can you manage it by yourself?

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And if you can't bring in people, I cut like to call it who's in your boat, you know, who can can help you get through this storm that you're ill-equipped to manage.

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And it may be family, it may be friends, it may be professional therapists, um, it may be um clergy, uh, but people that can support you in in the particular situation you're in.

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And it's actually through the years been surprising that that that crew changes.

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Um when um we lost our our our parents, Rachel and I uh were trying to comfort each other, and we realized after the death of uh our father that we couldn't really comfort each other because we were in our own grief, and so we needed to expand our pool of of people in our boat because we just made each other sadder instead of trying to help each other uh cope.

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And I think that that's not a uh a first thought that you think your family should be through, but they're the ones that know you best, they should be able to support you.

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But in the same grief, uh chances are they may not be the best person to get you through.

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And so that that idea of determining who can be helpful to you as you navigate through is is a is a real core uh mode for me of operating.

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I'm constantly looking for who can be helpful in a situation like this.

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And to be honest, it's not always easy to ask for help, you know, it doesn't just like to do it on our own, but that's where you need to be really honest about your capacity to cope with it by yourself.

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Right.

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And it's, you know, finding the right people to allow in.

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And it that can be hard.

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I mean, I'm in a situation right now where, you know, somebody in my family desperately needs help.

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And so, you know, it's it's really praying, trying to figure out who the right people are, and um being okay with letting outside people in.

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Because that's not always easy.

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And I know that probably, you know, lots of times in your life when you uh were first paralyzed or when you were, you know, and I heard that some how some of the people talked about you when you I read that in the book.

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You know, I don't think that that's okay.

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And the people that you're trusting, you want them to have the same heart as you.

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You know, you want them to be on the same page as you with your family and what you're trying to do in your grief, and and it's just not okay.

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So it's hard.

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I'll say you could always uninvite them.

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You just don't, you know, you kind of keep them out of the the loop of information.

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I love it.

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Uninvite them.

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Well, I love that, and I do do that sometimes.

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Um, you know, what we like I said earlier with your dad and your you having this um beautiful way of being able to um use words, and and his words were just always wonderful.

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One of the things that he said after your brother passed away was, you will always walk with a limp, but you will walk.

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And I mean for one thing, there is no one way to move forward.

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And I instantly thought of how those words changed for you when you were no longer able to walk.

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But I realized nothing in your life is traditional.

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Definitions of moving forward are just what they are.

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You know, they're always changing, but you continue to move forward.

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So, how did your dad's words or your mom's words help you to move forward during some of your darkest times?

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You know, then they wound up being these little pearls, you know, that that they had taken something terribly um disruptive, uh uh just uh unimaginable, and they somehow, with their way of looking at things, made it palatable, made it so that that I could uh latch on to what they were saying and walk with a limp.

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I thought about that, you know, I can't walk at all.

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Uh but but the meaning of that is that it's okay to be wounded, it's okay to your pain, it's okay to have a scar and have it uh impact you, that that you're not flawed, you're just moving through with what life gave you.

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Um so I think that and that's the way to see what did you say?

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Dad, I think was timely, but also timeless in the way that he uh described himself.

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Yes, look at it differently.

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I love that.

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You know, what what do you do?

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You said in Morning Fuel, and this was a great question.

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What do you do when you don't know what's next?

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You know, you lived in that space, I think for years, and I think many of us do, you know, not as extreme as yours, of course, because you literally could barely get your breath, and another tragedy would strike you or your family.

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And how do you live when you don't know what's next without constantly waiting for the next heartache to happen?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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There are a couple of things.

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Um, when my son Matthew presented with seizures, yeah, it was really hard uh to know whether or not he would outgrow them or not.

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I've been told that there was a good chance that he could outgrow them.

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But the way they told us, you know, that you we just have to see if the seizures continued or not.

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So a therapist uh in the hospital said, you know, when you when you don't know what's next, when there's uncertainty ahead, she said, Have you tried parallel paths?

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Like, you know, oh yes.

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And um she said, Well, you you look at the situation and you look at the two obvious outcomes.

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There may be more than that, but the two that you want, you know, or the the one that you want for sure, the hope path, which is you hope he outgrows them, and then envision life like that.

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What would life look like if he did outgrow them?

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And he resumed normal uh progression.

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And then on the reality path or the path you don't want, um, you know, what would life look like if he doesn't?

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And that just really uh uh calmed me down of this cycle and gave me paths I could journey on, really at the same time.

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You know, what would life look like if if he was able to come home and he resumed normal development?

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And should I explore options if he can't come home?

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And what would that look like?

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And so either way.

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Way, it kept me moving.

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It wasn't cyclical.

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It was moving in directions.

00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:17.839
And over time it became obvious what was that he wasn't going to be able, you know, his seizures continued and that he was going to be in a declining situation.

00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:24.160
But I used that um that image of parallel paths with my divorce.

00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.359
Would we reconcile?

00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:27.599
Would we not with my paralysis?

00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.640
Would I walk?

00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:29.839
Would I not?

00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.960
And in that way, this these two paths, it kept me moving forward.

00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:41.759
And so when the one option uh option became obvious, then then I'd already done work on that.

00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.960
It wasn't like, oh my gosh, I wasn't prepared at all.

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:53.200
But um I really think that that was a helpful way for me to keep moving, because I think keeping moving is very important.

00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:58.799
Um we we risk isolation when we just spin.

00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:05.920
Um, and another thing I like to do, I I would um I call them put them on a shelf.

00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:11.200
You know, when when things are troubling, I have these shelves in my mind.

00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.680
It's like I'm not gonna deny that this is an issue, but I'm not gonna look through it every day.

00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:29.440
I'm gonna put it on a shelf in my mind and and then worry about that another time, but then do do what's next in my life to live fully in the life I do have when I don't know what's ahead.

00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.680
And then spend time in that.

00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:40.880
Yeah, I I read in your book, I think something about your dad said put pegs in your brain or something and put it on the sh, you know, put it on the peg for later.

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:48.079
And it was such a great visual, and it really did help because I was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna start doing that.

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:53.279
I'm just gonna put pegs in my brain and put those, you know, be pretty compartmentalized.

00:21:53.519 --> 00:22:05.200
You know, one of the things in your story was you had multiple miscarriages, and you also, you know, there was so much going on in your family at the time.

00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:13.839
And I remember you describing how you'd see other families, and I think it was at the doctor's or something, and you saw you saw that they were happy.

00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:22.319
And and even though you spoke about your family to others at times, and it was, yeah, it's perfect.

00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:38.319
I remember that word perfect because you were also carrying so much pain at the time, and you were juggling Matthew's hospital care, Madison's early autism needs, Peter's challenges at the beginning, and Britney's energy, you know, all at once, and it was so much.

00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:44.240
How do you hold gratitude and grief at the same time?

00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:49.519
Do you try to separate the good from the bad, or do they live together?

00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.759
I think they live together.

00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:53.599
It's all about focus.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:19.920
And I think it's important to um acknowledge that pain when you see kind of the perfect family or um, you know, the perfect situation that you wish you could do, and and somebody enjoying something that you once did and you can no longer do, or seeing other children develop fully and and um two of yours are not.

00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:26.880
So I think that again, I I have to be honest about that hurts, you know, oh that hurts.

00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:33.279
It's like, you know, because there's uh envy, there's jealousy, all of those feelings.

00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.839
But to touch them and go, you know, like, yep, feel that.

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:39.119
But you know what?

00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:50.720
Try to experience their joy with them, you know, to experience something that you may not have, but just because you don't have it doesn't mean it doesn't have value to experience.

00:23:51.039 --> 00:24:06.160
So um that's when I'm at my best self, my my when I'm not at my best self, maybe maybe I take some time away from that and I don't expose myself to that too much if it's if it's if I'm too raw, if I'm not strong enough to be to embrace that joy.

00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:08.240
But it's a tough situation.

00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:21.440
I lived a little bit similar to that, in that, you know, um, I've I've adopted five kids and three of my the three littles all have autism.

00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:35.279
I adopted them when they had a lot of trauma, and one is you know, really has a difficult time um in general, and uh she's really having a rough time.

00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:50.960
And the other two, one I homeschool, one is on the lower end of the functioning, and even though he just turned 12, today's his birthday, um he uh, you know, operates at probably like a five-year-old level.

00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.440
And we I just love him to death.

00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.519
He is just the sweetest kid, and I just love he's got the best heart.

00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:03.680
But, you know, he wants so badly to play football with his peers and to go out and do those things.

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:14.960
And I look on Facebook and it's kind of like this thing where I don't even want to look, you know, because those I wish statements, feelings, thoughts come into my head.

00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:20.160
And I just want to say, you know, yeah, I know how much he wants that.

00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.000
I wish he could have that.

00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:27.599
So, you know, we have him in um special needs baseball and all that other stuff.

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.720
And I mean, he just absolutely loves it.

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:44.000
But, you know, I'm gonna be honest, those times they do hurt when you see other families and what they're able to do, and you know that you're just not able to, and your kids can't experience those typical things.

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.799
So it's hard.

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:53.200
And I mean, can you talk about how it feels to celebrate others when you privately carry loss?

00:25:53.920 --> 00:26:01.440
Um, you know, when I when I can um get the right mindset to do that, and I think you're right about social media.

00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:05.759
I think we all see uh, you know, the the bright and shiny things.

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.400
And so sometimes I limit myself to that.

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:34.000
But if I have personal friends and that are really have a lot to celebrate, I try to just minimize you know my grief and my my pain to try to celebrate with them because there's again it's a distraction from what you've got going on to say, let me lean in fully to what they're experiencing and see if and be more inquisitive about what's going on with them and and just embrace it.

00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:46.960
And yeah, I think I think it's it's worth that if you're secure enough to do that, if you're fragile, and I think that's a big big point to uh assess yourself.

00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.200
Like, are you strong enough to to do that today?

00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.359
You know, maybe you haven't slept well, maybe you haven't you aren't feeling well, you know.

00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:03.839
I think all of those things uh uh affect how we our strength to handle things that might be difficult.

00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.400
So self-assess first and then if you can lean into it, do it.

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.599
And I I think you'll be glad you did it.

00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:15.599
I think it's uh something you can appreciate about stretching yourself.

00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.680
Yeah, I really like to be other people's cheerleaders, and that's what I try to do.

00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:28.319
And I think that that helps be able to step outside and you know, just be other people's cheerleaders.

00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:35.440
And sometimes, like you said, I have to kind of analyze and you know assess where I am at the moment and say, okay, I can do that.

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.559
No, today I can't.

00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.279
And it's okay, it's both are okay.

00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:41.359
Absolutely, yeah.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.119
So you wrote so openly about feeling isolated during some hard times.

00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:56.559
Like many women, you know, we carry the appointments, the hospital stays, the sleepless nights, often when your husband was busy doing him.

00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:06.079
And you know, how do you handle the loneliness that comes from actively holding up a family that needed so much and you did it alone?

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:13.920
Well, you know, I I I say, you know, you can you alone can do it, but you can't do it alone.

00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.839
And I had a lot of people vote for me with me.

00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:33.039
Um with big support, my church was a big support, uh, neighbors that would reach out, and uh I think it's important to cultivate a community around yourself so that you don't feel alone.

00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:34.880
That's so important.

00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:40.319
You know, my husband actually lives in a separate place because it's too hard for him.

00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:52.799
And I in one sense understand, but in the other, sometimes I beg him to just come and take the kids and go do something with them, you know, get involved a little bit.

00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:59.599
But, you know, when you felt was it you, you know, were you unlovable?

00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.559
I kind of felt that a little bit and I went to that.

00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.480
Oh my gosh, I had no idea that 80% of marriages with special needs kids fail.

00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.359
I didn't know that's huge.

00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:19.839
But I really do think that some of us can handle the hard and just some of us can't.

00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:23.599
I mean, that just seems what it comes down to sometimes.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.319
Yeah, it's it's hard to know your capacity for things until you're in it.

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:34.160
And it's hard to uh know another person's capacity for things as well.

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:36.400
Yeah, I don't think you can predict those things until you're in.

00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:37.519
No, you can't.

00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:38.799
No, no.

00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:44.319
And you and your husband did, you know, you grew apart and divorce became the answer.

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:46.960
And suddenly you were a single mom of four.

00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:53.920
And I wanted to just reach through the pages and give you a hug because you know, your dad always says, trust the process.

00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.319
And I cannot tell you how many times I say that.

00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:06.240
You always chose the hard road, even when the easier road was right in front of you at times.

00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:12.079
And sometimes, you know, us especially as moms, you know, we just we don't see the other option.

00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.359
We don't see the choice.

00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:20.079
What do you think helped you trust those hard instincts and go the hard road, even when you didn't know the outcome?

00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:39.440
Yeah, I think uh a lot of times it's uh we want to put up barriers and walls and and uh I can do it myself, or I don't need this person in my life, or you know, we tend tend to be uh final about some uh if things if if particularly if we've been hurt or felt betrayed.

00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:46.559
But um I I think that um what helped me was really leaning into love, you know.

00:30:46.640 --> 00:31:00.720
One of the things I I had told Brittany and her um her husband to be is to you know in in their in their marriage to let their love be larger.

00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:07.599
To let love be larger than their circumstance, than any of the things that threaten their relationship.

00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:09.680
And I've tried to live that.

00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:34.240
It's not always easy, but uh I feel like that that that power of love uh can really help you accept the things you can't change and create relationships with people that that maybe don't make sense exactly, but it makes sense for you because it's it it's a greater good that uh for you to uh embrace others.

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:48.960
Uh so I that that I mean it's you know not the first person to say the power of love, but um letting your love be larger is is really when I again I best self-that's what I lean into.

00:31:50.480 --> 00:32:08.559
That was one of my favorite, there were so many different, you know, favorite parts of the book, but that was one of my favorite parts of the book is when you, you know, you didn't know what you would say to them at the wedding, but then you wrote this thing down on uh let your love be larger than, larger than adversity, larger than.

00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.400
And I was just like, oh my gosh, that is just so beautiful.

00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:19.279
And it made me wonder if you had so many things happen to you that tried to take you down.

00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:29.839
But I just wondered if maybe it was that love was larger than this, and love was larger than that, that, you know, and it just maybe love is what got you through.

00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.599
I I think so, you know, I I got to experience that in my home.

00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:39.839
Yeah, we we we struggled after Forest's death.

00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:50.160
Uh we uh our family shattered, you know, not necessarily emotionally, but but we lived in different places.

00:32:50.319 --> 00:33:03.279
I was in college, my sister was in uh Forest High School, my father had taken a new pastorate in another state, and so we physically weren't together, and then we we grieved differently.

00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:15.839
Father could be very public with his uh expressions of grief and very quickly became a noted lecturer on grief as well as speaking from the pulpit, writing about it.

00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:33.279
My mom, much more private and uh was in support groups for women have lost children, and and I was with my college buddies uh who uh helped me move through grief uh in my in their own way, structure and activity.

00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.759
But my sister wanted to be with him.

00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:41.920
They were you know 17 months apart and she said they had to get her specialized counseling for her.

00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:53.200
So I think that that we continued to love each other even though we were in different places on in grief and different physical places.

00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:58.319
We figured out ways to be family uh through small things.

00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:22.320
My dad would send me his sermon tapes, my mom would be sending me little notes at at school that would have uh sticks of chewing gum in them and some stamps and encouraged me to write her and and so so you just kind of be creative during those uh periods of awkward uh awkwardness uh to not interpack with people.

00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:33.920
You know, your your father's uh final days, which you know, things can be hard and beautiful at the same time.

00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.920
And you know, he he shared something with you that was deeply profound.

00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.280
And could you share what he said and how those words impacted you?

00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:56.800
Yeah, uh it it um so uh they had told us that um dad was probably not gonna get get better.

00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:09.920
Uh he was in the hospital um and he uh kidney cancer had come back and he was he was he was lucid, uh, but he brought mom and dad.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:25.599
I mean he brought Rachel and myself and my mom together and and we had a little prayer together, and then he said, I want you guys to remember to take care of yourselves.

00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:34.239
It wasn't take care of each other, which was I like that Rachel was saying, Can you say take care of ourselves?

00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:51.519
And um and yes, it was like, wait a minute, I felt sure he was gonna say take care of each other, but but it it drove home the point that until we take care of ourselves, we really can't take care of other people, you know.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.760
The airlines tell you to put the oxygen mass on your own.

00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:56.159
Yes.

00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:58.079
I thought of that, yes.

00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:06.559
Before you help your children, and of course you want to help your children first, but it doesn't do them any good if you passed out for lack of oxygen.

00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:18.960
So I think that really emphasized to me self-care and self-compassion and and figuring out, you know, what's in my best interest to do.

00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:26.159
For me, it sounds selfish, but the truth is you can't be really functional if if your health isn't good.

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:31.760
And I have this thing where we say, you know, what's the most important thing for you right now?

00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.039
And and the most important thing for you in general.

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.760
And for me, it's my health.

00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.920
You know, I can't do anything if I can't get in my wheelchair and go anywhere, or I can't get out of bed, or you know, my health is very important to me.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.039
And so that helps me prioritize things about what I need to do today.

00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.840
Mm-hmm.

00:36:52.559 --> 00:37:00.719
Yeah, I mean that's really amazing that you know it's it's always perspective shifts and it's always learning as we go.

00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.760
And you've had many different seasons for you to do that.

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:12.800
Life is full of decisions, and I think most of us, especially as parents, second guess ourselves more than we'd ever admit.

00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:14.960
I I'm doing that all the time.

00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:25.199
When your son Matthew needed medically fragile foster care, you had to make an incredibly hard but necessary choice to place him where he could receive the care that he needed and deserved.

00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:32.239
You shared that your parents told you they would have done the same if Forrest had survived and needed that level of care.

00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.280
I thought that that was so amazing that they said that to you.

00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:45.280
How did having their support, especially in that kind of moment and through your life help you trust that you were making the right dis decisions as a mother?

00:37:45.599 --> 00:38:03.920
It was affirming and um in a strange way encouraging that uh it was okay to uh operate not only in in Matthew's best interest, but in our family's best interest, because that's what mom had said.

00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.440
I said specifically, you know, what would you have done with with Forrest?

00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.760
And she said, I would have made the right decision.

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:25.920
It was in Forrest's best interest and the family, and to include the family in the best interest thinking process really expanded that because I couldn't care for Matthew by myself.

00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.679
And what would that mean if I tried to do that?

00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:38.800
School does that mean learning techniques and this and and what how would that affect the other children that I have too?

00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:47.280
So it really encouraged me to consider the family unit as we make made decisions.

00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:53.760
Uh so I found it a great relief for them to be that honest with me about what they would have done.

00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:57.039
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.000
I mean, you guys all worked together as a team.

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:07.280
It felt you guys all supported each other throughout uh everything that you were going through in life.

00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.159
And I just thought that that was a beautiful thing.

00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.679
Your parents just seemed like they were beautiful people.

00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.480
They were amazing in many ways.

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:28.000
I credit the way they um handled forest, the loss of forest is giving me kind of a front row seat to how do you get through the losses you could ever expect.

00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.800
So yeah, I there were things I learned from them.

00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.559
I didn't even realize I learned from them until I had to cope with it myself.

00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:35.519
Sure, sure.

00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.039
I mean, that's what happens.

00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.920
You know, your dad had other powerful words.

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:48.800
Um, he said, happiness lies in the difference between between being struck by a challenge and being stuck in a challenge.

00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:53.599
And that really hit me because that again is another perspective shift.

00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:59.440
I think we all have moments where we need to kind of pause and catch our breath and just be still for a while.

00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:01.920
But That I don't call that stuck.

00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:15.360
Did you ever feel stuck during times when there was progress, or maybe you felt like you weren't really moving, but because you couldn't see it or feel it, but you were doing everything that you could?

00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:25.039
Yeah, you know, I I came up with this idea of of the power of better, you know, or just uh better moments.

00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:30.719
And so it's like what what was different about today than yesterday?

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.039
One small thing that got better.

00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:38.079
It may not have been the best, it may not have been achieved my goal, but did something get better?

00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:59.440
Did I, you know, get the dog out on time or get the get get the dog out, you know, early enough for him, or did I wake up without the alarm clock, or did I make a tiny bit of progress and I let that count, you know, I let that count that that I was able to do something a little tiny bit better than the day before.

00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:07.920
And just seeing that progress, you know, I had a gratitude journal that I was doing three things I was grateful for every day.

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:08.880
And I said, Well, you know what?

00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:13.199
I'm gonna attract three things that were better today about than yesterday.

00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.880
So that encouraged that forward to him.

00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:20.079
You know what?

00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:23.920
Making it that small sometimes is what we have to do.

00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:35.920
Sometimes we can only pay attention to the step in front of us or the step that we just took, you know, to where it sometimes it is just, you know, really honing in on a smaller amount of time.

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.840
I really like that.

00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:41.519
Madison's journey with autism, of course.

00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:50.159
Autism is very special to my heart, of course, but her story really touched me as an autistic adult as well.

00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:56.000
And I love how you celebrated her voice after she started AD ABA.

00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.320
And I loved her place in the family.

00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:04.719
I loved how Brittany wanted to include her in the wedding and the way that that happened, and then the photos that were taken.

00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:09.519
And it made me think of your mom as well, because photos were so important to her.

00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:14.960
What were the parts of your kids that helped hold you up?

00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:22.960
Because they seemed to all hold each other up and and you held them up, but what were the parts that helped hold you up?

00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:24.719
You know, they kept growing.

00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:31.599
It was like I was waiting to know, especially after paralysis, I was waiting to figure out what I was gonna walk again.

00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:33.440
But, you know, they had their needs.

00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:37.360
They were three, five, seven, and nine when I was paralyzed.

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:47.360
And Madison needed uh, well, at the time, that was 1997, and so there wasn't a whole lot about autism.

00:42:47.760 --> 00:43:04.159
And this is um when I had uh reached out to a fellow uh parent, sent home this yellow flyer and uh Madison's backpack, and and that taught us about ABA or invited us to her home to learn about uh ABA therapy.

00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:18.559
We used that with Madison, but and then later that that uh transaction of sharing information that wasn't available for through a doctor or educator, that became the basis of Pathfinders for Autism.

00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:27.119
And that put me on that track, you know, to work with with that, you know, toward that for two for three years before it was incorporated.

00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:34.320
So her needs helped me journey through my weighting of if I was gonna walk again.

00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:41.039
So it was nice to redirect my energy instead of all about me to how can I help Madison?

00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.360
That was so important.

00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:53.519
I love that part of the story, and that uh the Baltimore Orioles' wives ended up, you know, raising$100,000, which was the most that they had raised at that time.

00:43:53.679 --> 00:44:00.159
And then even Michael Phelps, here he is, he jumps on board as an honorary member and then a radio spot for you.

00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:01.760
I thought that that was so great.

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.840
Can you talk more about that?

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:05.519
Sure.

00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:11.599
So we uh in the in the early days, we were just a small group of parents sharing information.

00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:13.840
We're trying to share our discoveries.

00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:25.840
And then in 2000, we were incorporated, we hired our first employee who had a uh a child with autism, because at the time everybody was saying, wait and see what happens.

00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:33.920
And we had uh wanted people to get as as many resources as they could and talk to another parent on the phone.

00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.320
This is way before Google or the internet or social.

00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:37.119
Right.

00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:38.639
Absolutely.

00:44:39.119 --> 00:45:17.679
So we uh started out that way uh with just a person answering the phone, and we developed a database, and then we created special events to try to help raise money, and and now you know we serve 20,000 people a year with Oh my gosh, yes, some family events where people can go and and feel safe going to the aquarium with their kids with autism or gardens or there's different uh activities we have, and we also train first responders, you know, whether that's EMTs, uh your your next encounter it re is gonna be with a person with autism.

00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:19.360