July 9, 2025
ADHD in Women with Dr. Jennifer Dall: Diagnosed at 53
Send us a text What happens when a neurodivergent specialist discovers she's been living with undiagnosed ADHD for over five decades? Dr. Jennifer Dall takes us through her extraordinary journey from confusion to clarity after receiving her ADHD diagnosis at age 53. Despite her doctorate in educational psychology and 25 years as an educator, Dr. Dall's ADHD remained hidden beneath societal misconceptions and outdated diagnostic approaches that failed to recognize how ADHD manifests different...
What happens when a neurodivergent specialist discovers she's been living with undiagnosed ADHD for over five decades? Dr. Jennifer Dall takes us through her extraordinary journey from confusion to clarity after receiving her ADHD diagnosis at age 53.
Despite her doctorate in educational psychology and 25 years as an educator, Dr. Dall's ADHD remained hidden beneath societal misconceptions and outdated diagnostic approaches that failed to recognize how ADHD manifests differently in women. She candidly reveals the emotional toll of being gaslit by healthcare providers who saw only her achievements while missing her internal struggles.
This conversation shatters stereotypes about what ADHD "should" look like, especially in accomplished women. Dr. Dall unpacks invisible symptoms that society misinterprets as character flaws—time blindness that makes you perpetually early or late, proprioception issues that have you constantly bumping into doorways, and rejection sensitivity that turns minor comments into deep wounds.
You'll discover practical, holistic approaches that work with your neurodivergent brain rather than fighting against it. From the Pomodoro technique and body doubling to three-day project sprints, Dr. Dall shares the strategies that helped her reclaim her life. She explores how grief and trauma compound ADHD challenges, drawing from her personal experience after losing her husband to suicide three years ago.
For anyone questioning whether they might have ADHD—particularly women who've been dismissed with depression or anxiety diagnoses—Dr. Dall offers validation and a roadmap forward. Whether pursuing formal diagnosis or embracing self-discovery, she emphasizes that understanding your unique brain wiring is the first step toward authentic living.
Connect with Dr. Jennifer Dall at ADHDholistically.com and grab her free guide featuring quick, practical hacks for thriving with ADHD. If this conversation resonates with you or someone you love, share it and join a growing community redefining what it means to live successfully with neurodivergence.
@Real Talk with Tina and Ann
Chapters
00:00 - Meeting Dr. Jennifer Dahl
02:14 - The Struggle of Undiagnosed ADHD
06:53 - Gender Bias in ADHD Diagnosis
13:43 - Masking and Invisible ADHD Symptoms
27:04 - Strategies for Managing ADHD
37:24 - Grief, Trauma and Neurodivergence
47:24 - Supporting ADHD in Workplaces
58:01 - Finding Resources and Closing Thoughts
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
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I am Anne.
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Today we're diving into the beautiful chaos of ADHD, resilience and the power of self-discovery with someone who truly understands the journey.
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Our guest is Dr Jennifer Dahl, founder of ADHD Holistically.
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She's a grief-informed neurodivergence specialist with over 25 years of experience as an educator, adhd coach, yoga instructor and grief educator.
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Dr Jennifer brings a deeply personal, compassionate and holistic approach to helping neurodivergent individuals not just survive but truly thrive.
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She helps women reframe their ADHD narratives and unlock their full potential.
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Her work also extends to therapists, life coaches and HR professionals, offering comprehensive training to better support neurodivergent clients and employees.
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And I cannot tell you how needed this is.
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Get ready for real tools, honest insights and a conversation that might just shift how you see yourself or someone you love.
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Thank you so much for being here today, thank you.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm so excited about talking with you.
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Yeah, I have to tell you, as someone with autism and ADHD, I very much am looking forward to this conversation.
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You were diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 53 and have developed quite the practical holistic tool belt.
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It says, for one thing, so much about who you are that you developed your own way of coping throughout your life, but it must have been so frustrating for you to have a reason for what was going on for you for so long.
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There are so many people that have walked this journey.
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We all want validation and a diagnosis so we know how to treat what is going on with us.
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Talk about that emotional toll.
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You went through living with undiagnosed or misdiagnosed ADHD for so long.
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Well, you're exactly right.
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It has been very emotional and I know so many people, so many women, understand this.
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Being in the age group I'm at, even with being in education and being a social education teacher and having a doctorate in educational psychology, there's just so much information that nobody had and nobody knew, and so it has been really hard.
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I, in my journey, I have begun to suspect things just because I have this knowledge and this experience.
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Some of my suspecting came from my students.
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I taught high school a lot.
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I really liked high school.
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When I first started.
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Most of my kids were boys.
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Gradually we'd get more and more girls and I would look at some of those girls who came in with an ADHD diagnosis and I'd be like huh girls who came in with an ADHD diagnosis and I'd be like huh, that's really interesting.
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And so I think about it.
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But I would ask people I knew in education or whatever, people who knew things about ADHD do you think?
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Or I think?
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And they'd say, oh no, you can't.
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Possibly you have done all of these things.
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You, you know they.
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Even people within it still think of ADHD as like this eight-year-old boy who's bouncing all over the place, right, right, and so, oh no, you can't possibly, and I would learn more and I would see more things that I would do or about me.
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I was like huh, and I'd ask somebody, and sometimes I didn't want to ask because maybe I didn't really want to know, but it was just a long time of that, and so then, kind of, I guess, being gaslit even by myself, by people who cared about me, by doctors, by therapists, college, and I know you just recently had a show about like empty nest and oh yeah, your kids living, and that one really really spoke to me.
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But it was hard and I went to my healthcare providers and it was okay, you're depressed.
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Here's some antidepressants which I am now.
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She's in law school now I am now trying to go off of and if anyone who's been on those knows, it is a very, very difficult thing to do so.
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But back to that, when I went in, there was never any look at.
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Could it be these other things?
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It was just here.
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Here's a medication, take this, go on.
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Like I say, like with many people, it's just this ongoing process of learning things.
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You know, we all came to the pandemic and we all slowed down and quieted down and started getting more information and just the number of times where just little little checks kept going off until it was.
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We need to talk about this.
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I think part of it also is when I was young.
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You know, in overtime there's just not been a lot of research and knowledge about women and girls.
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So much has been focused on boys, so much has been focused on the type of ADHD that is very impulsive outward as opposed to other kinds, especially with many girls, where you're quiet or you're inside.
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It doesn't mean my mind's not impulsive, it doesn't mean my mind is not going all over the place, but more information has come about.
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I started hearing more, I started really internalizing it and looking at what was going on with my students and then I started advocating and pushing for myself.
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And there's still people who they may not believe me.
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It's still.
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They just don't have the information, and that's true.
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And one of the reasons I also like working with professionals is I also deal with grief.
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My husband died suddenly just over three years ago from suicide and I have a really great therapist who knows trauma, who knows all of that.
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But there's also been many times when I've been teaching her and she knows that and she appreciates that and so understanding that there are people that you come across who don't understand what ADHD is, the connection between ADHD or autism or any of these things and other things depression and grief, and how often people women may be diagnosed with depression or anxiety instead of ADHD or autism, when it could be both, or it could be both, and those whole roads of not then finding solutions that really work for you.
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I know I just really went down a rabbit hole there.
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Well, I mean, you touched on something, I think, because you know we wouldn't treat cancer with heart disease protocol.
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So why do you think it's so hard for women to get diagnosed?
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How can clinicians do better, I think, for?
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one thing they don't have a lot of knowledge.
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Clinicians do better, I think.
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For one thing, they don't have a lot of knowledge.
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Clinicians, teachers, the world out there, whether you yourself may or may not have ADHD or you have a child that has ADHD, but there's just not a lot of knowledge.
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With any kind of research there's a lag.
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The research happens and then it has to be verified and then published or go out.
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So there's this huge lag and I think people just don't know and they don't know what they don't know, which happens a lot.
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Right, you know, I've heard in middle school the frightening small portion of their time that is spent on things like this, as well as other health conditions, especially with menopause, things like that.
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So I think it's just not out there and until it starts to impact you or someone you know or someone really comes forward and tells you about it, I think it's probably just not even on their minds, to be honest, you know, before I or you know other people that I know have gone into health professionals to be diagnosed and they're going to be making that decision whether we have ADHD or not.
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They have us either sit in the lobby or at home before we get there, filling out pages and pages of questions and it's like describe yourself from one to five or extremely to not at all questions.
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And you know, I found myself trying hard not to really read too much into them, because just answering the question is difficult, because sometimes it depends on the day, depends on the scenario, depends on if I had enough sleep that night.
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You know, not everything is black and white and when you go in there, oftentimes, and if you do something that you don't even know that you did, they're like oh no, you don't have it, I just saw you do this, so there's no way you could have it.
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And you know it can be so frustrating in the hands of some being in the hands of somebody else that is making huge decision about our life.
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Can you speak on this at all?
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Because you know, I think this is a huge reason why so many of us are not diagnosed.
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Should there be separate forms for like men and women.
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I mean what needs to be different?
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I think the whole process needs to be looked at.
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Like you said, you can go in and you can fill out this form and, depending on so many things that day, yeah, you fill out differently.
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And so, thinking about that, you may, before you even go in and you can fill out this form and, depending on so many things that day, yeah, you fill out differently.
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And so, thinking about that, you may, before you even go in there, think about other times when, whether it was just a simple personality quiz or something, or at work, you were given something and you went through that same process.
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That's very hard.
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I think a lot of it, not just boys and girls, but also getting into the different types of ADHD and the different ages.
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Some of the assessment tools seem like they're really geared towards children.
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I'll give an example.
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I have a really good friend who has ADHD.
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She's also wondering, she has autism.
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So she went through the process, through one of the companies that will assess you, and she put me down as someone for them to reach out to and they sent me a survey and, having been in education, I've seen these surveys for kids and it seemed like so many of the things that they asked about her I felt weren't appropriate.
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And I told her this.
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I said I don't know what your results are going to say, because I see you as this person, as this woman who's in her 50s, who's successful, who's done these things, who's masked, who has education, who knows all these things.
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She knows she's supposed to shower and she then will.
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You know, the pandemic may have changed all of our relationships with that a little bit, but it's like when you're looking at whether or not a kid does something or makes eye contact, she knows she's supposed to make eye contact.
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She knows she's supposed to make eye contact.
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She knows she's supposed to do these things.
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And so that assessment, and then also back to the ADHD.
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You know they want to know.
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Well, what did your teacher say?
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I was in school in the 70s and 80s, you know either said I needed to talk more or I needed to stop passing notes and talking to my friends all the time.
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You know you need to study for calculus and not just the classes you like.
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You know they wouldn't.
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Even if I knew where those records were, I don't know that they're going to be that helpful for a large number of people.
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And so that whole process, like you said filling out those forms, getting the information, maybe getting relatives or people you knew to remember and be honest about it.
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These are all really big factors.
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So, yes, back to male, female, but also I would say, age group, because trying to diagnose people who are a little bit older versus teenagers and kids, especially given the way our world is so different, our lives were different I think it needs to be a much more holistic approach, and I know that then some people just don't want to go through it.
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You know there's a lot of gatekeeping, there can be long lists to get assessed, it can cost money, it can be scary, and you can go through all this and still be told, like you said no, you have a doctorate, you know you have your own business, you can't possibly have this.
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So then, where are you left?
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How about?
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Women are naturally high achievers.
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We work really hard, we are pleasers.
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You know we go around being everybody's person that we have to do things for.
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You know, whether it's our kids or our parents or whatever our partner, you know we're just that person and we can multitask.
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I mean, that's what we do.
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So you know that in itself can appear like well, you can do all of these things.
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What's going on on the inside, though?
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You know the self-talk, the stories, the exhaustion.
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I mean, can we be honest that doing that at that level is exhausting?
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It really is.
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How about can you get to sleep at night because you can't turn your brain off after you've done all of these things?
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How about you can't find anything that you just put someplace, because that's me?
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And how come there't find anything that you just put someplace because that's me?
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And how come?
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There's the things that you do and the things that you don't do, based on interest and all of that and other people not understanding Like, why haven't you?
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You know you have boxes of stuff to donate in the car why haven't you taken them in?
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Don't you see them?
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I see them, but then I forget.
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And you know, and some people you know partners, friends, bosses sometimes they don't understand and they take it in a different way and then the story should tell yourself about that right, well, maybe having more questions about masking on those, because I think that we're pretty much talking about masking here.
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Yeah, so if they had a whole section on masking, that would be great, because I think more people would be diagnosed.
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And perhaps you know different kinds of scenarios like do you do something like this?
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Has anyone ever said that you do this?
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Do you ever find yourself doing this?
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Different kinds of things where you're masking, you know, right, even explaining how you go about certain things.
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One thing that people say to me that irritates me is oh, just do it, it's so easy.
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And yeah, whatever we're talking about is so easy.
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The laundry is not hard, but it takes many more steps than someone who just does do it knows.
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So even like we ask questions about masks and questions about if you had to do this, how would you do it?
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And listening to, is it I would just do it or is it?
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Oh, okay.
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And then there's all these steps that you realize you have to do and backtracking.
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Yeah, Somebody just said to me something that was just so simple.
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Well, why don't you just do that?
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And I said, well, that just adds a whole nother layer to my morning.
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You know, and it's true.
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And as back to as women you're expected to.
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You're supposed to write all of these things and yeah, and some of the things I've learned to do and I understand it's a little bit of a privilege, but especially since I've been empty nest and single is ordering from some meal kits, sometimes having my groceries delivered.
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If I do that, then at least I'm eating.
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Right, it does make it simpler, it does.
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So what happens when we walk away and we get that?
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No, what should we do?
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I would first of all take a deep breath, think about it.
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Maybe they've given you reasons why no, and think about it, and perhaps whether it's a therapist who actually knows things, or a friend or somebody in your life that you could then sit down with and talk it through, because, in a way, it's this person's opinion.
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It is not like a COVID test where you are positive, or a pregnancy test where you are or you are not.
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Okay, maybe you don't have ADHD, but these are still things that are going on, that are impacting your life, and so the most important thing, I think, is then seeing that and working with that and and finding ways to make your life better, not not to be able to be more productive we don't need to be more productive, we need to rest.
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But okay, whether this doctor says yes or no that I have ADHD, these are the things that made me think I did and this is how they're impacting my life and like, one by one, what is something I can do?
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Is my boss saying something?
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So this is impacting my work?
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Is this impacting my relationships?
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Is this impacting my ability to, you know, eat healthy or whatever is important to me?
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And so believing yourself you could go to another doctor you know in a second and then also decide how much that piece of paper means to you really.
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Because whether you're self-diagnosed or you're diagnosed, if you see these things in your life and you see that they're struggles, then let's work on finding ways to make a little bit better, whether it's the low-hanging fruit or whether it's more like this is really impacting my job and I might get fired and I need a job.
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And doing that Because if you get into this where, well, I have to have the diagnosis and the doctor said no, well, in all kinds of health issues, we all know stories of people who were told something that was then not true.
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Yeah, second opinions are really good and I really don't like sometimes the feeling that they have.
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The diagnostic person has feeling like they are over God, over us, in a way where I'm making this decision about you and, nope, you don't have it.
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Agreed Because, whether we're talking about ADHD characteristics or some physical health characteristic, in a trait you know, a cough losing weight whatever these are actually happening to you, it's your story.
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It's your existence Right.
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You know yourself better than anybody.
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You know yourself.
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So let's try to find some support from somebody who believes you and supports you.
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Yes, Did you feel differently after you were diagnosed officially when you were 53?
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Did it change your perspective about yourself?
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Yeah, I felt a little more validated in a way.
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But also then I think and you may have gone through this, I think with a lot of people there's kind of a grieving period, a loss period, wondering, wow, what if we had known this five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago?
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You know what would my life and what would this decision have been?
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I mentioned that I'm titrating off an antidepressant that is very, very challenging to come off of, like what if that hadn't happened?
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That's a solid thing right now in my mind, but that's not what happened.
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So this is the path I'm on and this, I know, allows me to help people and talk to people and understand other people who go through this.
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It felt a little validated, but if they had been like no, I think that it would have hurt and still I would hope that I would then say but I still see this and I still know this, and I think it's a little bit easier now.
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I think there's more of a discussion about you don't have to be, you can self-diagnose If you see this is what's going on, own it and do something about it.
00:19:37.451 --> 00:19:44.932
I also know that a lot of women, a lot of adults, find out when their kids end up being assessed somebody at school.
00:19:44.951 --> 00:19:50.625
I've heard that yes Is there an hereditary component and they're like oh yeah.
00:19:52.090 --> 00:19:56.940
Yeah, you're right, because they just didn't diagnose very much back then.
00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:58.122
I was like that as a kid.
00:19:58.142 --> 00:19:58.844
What's the problem?
00:19:58.844 --> 00:20:00.929
Oh right, Well, this is the problem.
00:20:01.931 --> 00:20:05.511
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it wasn't even a thing.
00:20:05.511 --> 00:20:11.190
I mean, when I was growing up, there were there was not very many people who had autism or ADHD.
00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:13.182
We just didn't even talk about those things.
00:20:13.301 --> 00:20:16.489
So we didn't talk about it, it wasn't labeled.
00:20:16.489 --> 00:20:20.082
Often it was marked off as, like a personality thing.
00:20:20.082 --> 00:20:22.224
You're just lazy, you're argumentative, you're disagreeable.
00:20:22.224 --> 00:20:24.307
Right, you're just lazy, you're argumentative, you're disagreeable.
00:20:25.108 --> 00:20:27.492
Right, you're the bouncy kid in the class or whatever.
00:20:27.492 --> 00:20:39.619
Yeah, you don't pay attention, right.
00:20:39.619 --> 00:20:42.741
Right, we did touch on masking, so can you define what masking is for people that might not understand and just kind of?
00:20:43.261 --> 00:20:45.522
maybe say what it looks like in women and just kind of maybe say what it looks like in women.
00:20:45.522 --> 00:20:51.326
Okay, so masking is like, well, basically putting on a mask and so it's pretending it's being something you're not.
00:20:51.326 --> 00:20:57.150
People with ADHD and autism I think are really good at, especially women who have learned to do this.
00:20:57.150 --> 00:21:02.653
I can see what you want out of me and I can put that face on.
00:21:02.653 --> 00:21:05.074
So it's almost like putting on a different face.
00:21:05.074 --> 00:21:09.215
It's talking a certain way, acting a certain way, covering up things.
00:21:09.215 --> 00:21:12.377
So with certain people is one look.
00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:25.126
And then maybe when you have a friend who has ADHD or autism or is just very open and you're a totally different person because you can relax the mask off and you're actually yourself.
00:21:26.172 --> 00:21:47.653
And so masking is hiding your distraction or hiding your disorganization, or hiding and not asking for help or telling people, because you feel like that gives you safety, because it's not safe to put it out there in the world and that is tiring and it's not really an effective.
00:21:47.653 --> 00:21:50.826
I mean, we do it, it's a strategy we learned.
00:21:50.826 --> 00:22:06.661
But maybe think about somebody who, if you think you mask somebody, a situation where you kind of think you're masking and a situation where you are a person you know you don't have to mask with and then sit there and think about that Like, wow, which do I prefer?
00:22:06.661 --> 00:22:15.925
Which is actually better, and kind of not get mad at yourself, but just like realize what's been going on and how you've been trained to mask.
00:22:15.925 --> 00:22:26.220
So, just like you're wearing a mask for illness or anybody's wearing a mask for any reason Halloween, you wear a mask and you're a different person in a way.
00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:28.163
Right, it's a performance.
00:22:28.163 --> 00:22:35.880
Yes, In a way I mean when I go in A performance guessing what I think you want.
00:22:36.361 --> 00:22:36.781
It's not.
00:22:36.781 --> 00:22:41.195
I'm an actor and I'm playing Othello and this is the role it's.
00:22:41.195 --> 00:22:48.758
I don't know you, so I'm guessing what I think you want and I'm giving that or like in school.
00:22:48.758 --> 00:22:51.846
You know, this is what you have, this is school me.
00:22:52.734 --> 00:22:59.615
Right, and that's when, lots of times, when you get home, you just let it all out and you really are exhausted.
00:23:01.159 --> 00:23:05.226
Yeah, and then you might not know why and you might get down on yourself.
00:23:05.226 --> 00:23:10.565
All I did is go to an event for an hour, but it was a bunch of people.
00:23:10.565 --> 00:23:11.207
I don't know.
00:23:11.207 --> 00:23:15.001
I tend to be shy, but I had to be a certain way.
00:23:15.001 --> 00:23:20.805
It was before I talked to a few people and you could just pass out or stare at the TV or whatever you do.
00:23:21.654 --> 00:23:27.163
Yeah, you know, before I have to go to an event like that, I oftentimes will go early.
00:23:27.163 --> 00:23:30.148
I'll look around, I'll see who I have to.
00:23:30.148 --> 00:23:34.923
You know what my expectations are, where I'm going to be sitting and that kind of thing.
00:23:34.923 --> 00:23:41.864
And it really does help me prepare because you know I am scared to death.
00:23:41.864 --> 00:23:59.539
Really on the inside I might appear like I'm not, but you know these type of situations, like with you on Zoom, and that you know those are a lot easier because you know we're not together and that kind of thing, but you put me in a situation where I'm not comfortable.
00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:01.465
I'm going to act completely different.
00:24:03.016 --> 00:24:17.147
Yes, and that completely different for me could be not saying a peep, just shrinking up, shutting down, shutting down, or if I then connect with you, that oversharing, nonstop talking.
00:24:17.147 --> 00:24:20.102
I don't know if you find that when you click with me, who's like that?
00:24:20.102 --> 00:24:21.084
I've done that.
00:24:21.084 --> 00:24:29.981
Yeah, and not a lot of room in between, unless it's a very I don't want to say scriptured, but structured kind of setting.
00:24:29.981 --> 00:24:54.682
Right, you are here for a thing, like if I go and I volunteer at something and this is a specific thing I'm ushering at this theater, I know the rules, but if somebody has a call out for we need volunteers to come to this thing and you don't know what you're doing, it can feel very unsettling, it can be very hard.
00:24:55.644 --> 00:25:03.268
Yeah, I have a lot of scripts in my head as I go into situations and I know, like this is what I'm going to say, and then I'm good.
00:25:03.268 --> 00:25:08.682
And then if it goes beyond that, I'm like, oh shoot, what do I say beyond that?
00:25:08.702 --> 00:25:10.325
I'm like oh shoot, what do I say?
00:25:10.325 --> 00:25:11.487
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:11.487 --> 00:25:13.029
So random small talk is hard.
00:25:23.894 --> 00:25:25.577
It is very much so, because it goes outside of the script.
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